I think my biggest issue overall with TLP servers is when people return to the game and request changes that affect all servers. Some times they are trivial on live while other times they impact everyone to an extent. Live and TLP should have their own database if possible so if the TLP community wants a change they can have it and live can vote on if they want the change also. I know I am dreaming here but this is my biggest issue.
I'm being specific, and you're being vague. Either out of ignorance or intentionally. I won't make an assumption and will give the benefit of the doubt. With that said. What rational reason could a player have to want another to stay on a server they'd rather not stay on? Because that is the issue at hand here. If I am playing on Phinny and Agnarr has a ruleset I'd rather play on. But you'd rather stay on Phinny. What rational reason would you have to keep me on Phinny? You state there are rational reasons. But have yet to give specifics.
We're not privy to the information, but clearly the progression angle is making $ or it wouldn't be reoccurring. I like EQ. If there was only Zek I would play there despite not being that interested in PVP at this time. I like it better that there are options. Agnarr represents a very specific diversification (or remake of the mac server) aimed at an audience that is mostly not presently subscribing to EQ. Not so much "new blood" but rather "recaptured". IF I only played on Live and didn't try and step back and think about an overall picture, there are some negatives: -Any resources going towards progression are not doing things for live (i.e., retuning of spells under level 85 has no real value to live servers). -Some changes to progression have consequences to live (i.e., fixing the illusion door bug without providing a way for later-era servers to access the content in a lock-picking rare playerbase, or at least rare to the person boxing Sebilis for XP and loot drops). -Some progression players post a lot of negative stuff about the live game, often dwelling on false assumptions and/or things that were changed years ago to not be such a problem (i.e. "Everything is lousy after GoD" ---er, no. There is some amazing content done in the last 10 years). -posting of progression-specific stuff in the veteran forum (live server area) would get annoying if one is not interested at all in progression. However, progression is a + for the overall game. As stated earlier, it has to be making money. I believe it is making more money than it costs to run. Profit is good for Daybreak. More profit means let's keep developing the game. Keep developing the game in a way that Live and progression likes means more things like EoK. EoK is the right direction*. *--and I remain an advocate for more old content being remade/obsoleted/removed! (blow up Odus?) to suit the live game's need for level 100+ interesting content. You want to see the original 1-60 Luclin? Old Sebilis or Plane of Fire (as examples) Go play progression. Obviously they haven't done that yet (though the precedent with Temple of Cazic Thule, various Planes, Splitpaw exists and makes sense... build nostalgia by moving on). TLDR: progression isn't bad for the game overall, but it is best to post about it in the proper forum.
I think this would fall mostly under trivial for live servers. Old Freeport or new Freeport will not change the fact that most people on live only visit this zone for quests or in passing. I doubt bringing back old Freeport would suddenly make it a hot spot for xp and although people might be happy with the change it would probably be one of those nostalgic things where people go and check it out, spend 5 minutes exploring and then forget about the zone. As mentioned above I think one of the worse changes was the illusion thru locked doors change. This makes perfect sense on TLP servers where current content would require this ability but on live this ability has been trivial for some time. This means if someone wants to go back and visit old zones and cant pick a lock they have to convince someone who can pick locks to help them which is probably not going to happen. This leaves a person having to roll an extra account just to have a toon to pick locks to get them access into places. Its changes like this that I frown upon because there is little consideration to the impact it might have on one population. I don't think either population should have changes that negatively affects the other which is why I wish they were on their own database. They could have EQClassic (TLP) with its own Launchpad, EQ and EQ2. I am sure there would be an added cost though which is why it will never happen.
Yeah, it would be almost a meaningless change on live since those old cities are almost dead there. It would be huge for the TLP servers though. Just a change I was thinking of that few people would have a problem with. Even players who only play on Live might like it for nostalgic reasons.
Do you think EQ is a democracy? They'll make changes that are best for the game. Vast majority of players are clueless (even if they have good intentions), the last thing they need to do is decide imo. That being said, I agree it's a good idea to have separate "games" where the progression servers could have the old zones for example (particularly Freeport since the current one is supposed to be like that only because of PoR and its storyline, which makes no sense when that story didn't yet happen).
EQ is not a democracy but they have used voting via in game polls in the past. You log into your account and when you enter the world a popup lets you vote on something. You can only vote once per account. Not saying we should be spammed with endless popups voting on crap but for important things it might not be a bad idea. I mean after all getting the input from their customers about what they like/want is smart for any business and usually provides overall better customer satisfaction.
Gathering infos is a good thing but here, you ask for them to listen to gamers choice, this is quite different (and bad).
I don't believe I was being vague intentionally or otherwise and I will give you the benefit of the doubt too I guess. I thought I was quite specific when I said some players have concerns that existing server suffer some population loss when they open up TLP servers. Not sure how to make that more specific. And not opening servers as often keep the populations a bit more stable. It is not about making people stay but not giving people reasons to leave for a never ending run of new servers. And you miss the whole point. I have said there are pros and cons to all of this. Just because you want to jump servers every year or other year doesn't mean others cannot be concerned about the disruption to existing servers that new ones cause. Do you understand now? Both sides can have valid concerns or are you being intentionally obtuse?
I disagree if what we are voting on is a win-win situation. Meaning if they present two options that are both good and neither is going to have a negative impact it only makes sense to get your customers involved whenever possible. Several companies use this strategy for marketing and it works well to get new customers and retain current customers. With that being said I don't think us as players always "knows" whats best for the game as is obvious by some of the threads and the lack of foresight into the consequences of doing certain things. Its these areas the devlopers need to retain complete control over and let us rant about on the boards.
Its okay for everyone to give opinions and suggestions to Daybreak but when anyone excepts them to do what a player tells them to they are going to be disappointed. What I think Daybreak should do will be different then what someone else things and likely different yet again from what Daybreak decides to do. In the end of it all Daybreak obviously thinks the best business model is to continue opening new TLP servers every couple of years. Some of us don't like the effect it has on the other servers but all we can do is say we don't like it.
I don't think TLP servers draw from the live base that much at all. I've played since the early days of EQ and on every TLP server along the way. It's not an either/or thing. Most long term players play on multiple servers in multiple guilds. Live these days is generally players who have played for a long time and have a lot of weekly game time. Some of them dabble in the TLPs or even play a lot for a few months, but their real game is live. The TLPs are mostly made up of players who only come back for the TLPs. They haven't played live in years and have no intention of ever doing so. In fact, most of them leave EQ entirely when the current TLP gets too far along. It's really two separate games with a small overlap these days.
You could pretty easily make a rational argument that EQ is stretching it's own player base too thin with too many servers. They've strung people out over a lot of TLPs at this point, and from a business standpoint, it's a quick cash grab vs the long term health of the game. I would expect nothing less from a company trying to make money off of an 18 year old game. That being said, I'll be on Agnarr, it's got the right conditions for me, almost perfectly. It stops at the EQ that I still love, it gives me the opportunity to "finish" characters and then roll an alt due to decent exp rate, it's instanced, and there won't be so many mage box armies running around. They've shot out a lot of TLP arrows, for me, this one hits the mark. There are major reasons why I don't care for every other TLP, this solves them all.
Easy, you explain why you want someone like me to stay on your server despite the fact I don't wish to stay. This has nothing to do with Pros and Cons. The thread is titled "Why People Threatened by Agnarr???" Concerns are one thing. But outright blasting people with irrational insults (such as insinuating someone is obtuse), is another. The thread is addressing the issues seen on live and existing progression servers where players honestly are insulting others for wanting to play on Agnarr or flipping out towards Daybreak for considering Agnarr. I'm pretty sure the concerns players had with Agnarr were discussed, debated, and considered already in probably about a dozen other threads. That's a non-issue at this point. Agnarr goes live within hours. No matter what concern is brought up in that time. But to reiterate. I don't see a rational reason for someone on a current server to want -me- to stay on it. That can't be explained. I doubt you'll even attempt that.
The best EQ experience is experiencing it where -I- want to experience it. Not where others think I should. Period.
I can tell by your answer that you're extremely defensive here, yeesh. I was just answering the OP's question. It's not like some guy sees agnarr and wants to play on it, and now "doesn't want to play with" anyone on his old server. That's such an unrealistic way to frame this. This isn't some drama club pal. But as I said in my post, in regard to the OP, that's why some people might not like the idea of agnarr. All I did was provide sound, reasoned logic to answer a question. Or maybe instead of being dramatic, you're just naive. Maybe you don't know what it's like having 2 good friends, and one wants to go to another server or game, and the other wants to stay where you are. Suddenly no matter what you do, you've lost a friend. Sure, you could still talk to each other or whatnot, but you know what I'm saying here. Don't even try to say that situation is something good. That situation, by definition, sucks. No one likes it when their world gets smaller in that sort of a way. Or do you log in every day and go "hey guys I just want to be sure none of you are just here because you're here, and that you all totally by choice are here. Is there any server rule set that could occur that you would rather have? BECAUSE IF THERE IS GET OUT NOW!!!! YOU DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH ME!!! RAAAWWR". I mean seriously dude.... What do you smoke to get logic like that? I'm not bothered by Agnarr in the least, but if someone was, I'd completely understand. And if you can't understand, then I hope as time passes, your life is good enough that you'll become someone who does understand.
I can tell by yours that there is an agenda here. One you cannot back up with facts. Here's the truth about you and the others. You are threatened by this server. Badly so even. Your argument is only that "well if you don't get it, then I can't explain it to you." That is a middle school teeny bopper girl throwing a fit because she thought her perceived BF didn't walk her to lunch one day out of the week. You have no facts. No argument. And no explanation. You're mad because this server gives others joy. You're mad because the server will draw away players whom you cannot profit off of. You're mad because you are greedy and jealous. That's not rational. And if by some sad fact that you are in fact telling the truth and losing friends to this server. Sorry buddy but those ain't your friends. They'd rather play there than with you. Tough crap man. It happens. Either they weren't as close to you as you thought, or they simply just don't like you. Anyone wanting to keep friends or strangers on a server they don't wish to be on is an irrational pos. That's the only fact in this thread so far.
