Why no 1hs tank weapons

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by KalbicWidmer, Jul 20, 2021.

  1. KalbicWidmer New Member

    I've noticed all the 1h weapons for tanking are 1hb, why?

    I think the SK class would never want a hammer over a sword.
  2. Alnitak Augur

    Actually, when full plate armor was available to many (and PAL and SK are definitely "plated tank" classes) the 1-hand weapon of choice became a war hammer. Swords do not work well against full-plate armor, and became secondary weapons.
    Riou likes this.
  3. Velisaris_MS Augur

    Because Ngreth thought it would be cute to give knights a 1hb weapon instead of the traditional 1hs weapon of previous expansions.

    It was not cute.
    MageGuy, Eteract and Andarriel like this.
  4. Loratex The Ridiculous Necro

    Being sliced and diced sure hurts but being smashed by hammer just pisses me off.
  5. Szilent Augur

  6. Cannikin Elder

    Swords were always "secondary" weapons at best throughout history. No standing army in history that I know of ever issued swords as their primary battle weapon. It was always some form of polearm (spear, lance, halberd, etc.), with or without a shield, or a ranged weapon like a bow, crossbow or firearm.

    Swords are "Jack of most trades, master of none" in that anything a sword could do, a more specialized weapon could do better (except look cool/prestigious).

    Relatively short swords were sometimes issued as sidearms, like the Roman gladius. However, as you said, when armor became more advanced they pivoted towards weapons like war hammers that can inflict trauma through armor, and often had a spike on the other side that can puncture plate. Even a battle axe is a more effective chopping weapon than a sword against armor (though I guess that would also count as 1HS).
  7. Tucoh Augur

    Spears felt so right against monsters when playing dark souls. Why get close for a swing with a monstrosity when you can use a long pike and gore it on its own weight? Imagine fighting a bear, would you rather have the best longsword money can buy or a particular sturdy sharpened stick??
  8. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    I like changing the weapon types every few expansions. It's very boring to just get slashers every expansion. There's no functional difference between them and people can just use one of the glut of ornaments to change it if they don't like the current expansion's style.

    Next expansion 2hander should be a piercer so we can be jousting knights again! (CoV/ToV ones should have been piercers in honor of the lances from original Velious :()
    Ozon likes this.
  9. strongbus Augur

    correct me if wrong but in battle swords where more for the up close and person fighting only. Such as if you where in a forest or in a building.
  10. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    The Roman army, probably one of the most famous "standing armies" in the world.... Of course different legion divisions used different weapons and their armaments changed throughout history to adapt to the technology and battlefields.

    Here's a nice little summary:

    Skuz likes this.
  11. ZenMaster formless, shapeless

    Did you watch Netflix's 'Age of Samurai'?

    Swords (Samurai Sword, Katana) are the primary weapon in old Japanese culture. It was actually culturally insulting to put other weapons (e.g. arquebus) over the sword.
  12. Dre. Augur

    Doesn't matter SK 1.0 ornament.
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  13. Cannikin Elder

    Reading through your source, it indicates that there was much experimentation in the weaponry of the Roman army, and there was only a brief period in history where the Roman army experimented with completely abandoning a polearm for a sword only approach (3rd-2nd century BC). So yes, you're technically right that there was a brief time where a standing army issued swords as the primary weapon, but the realities of field combat meant that Roman general infantry, legionnaires and especially cavalry, quickly and inevitably returned to the pilum and later the spiculum ("speculum" in the article).

    The gladius was issued as a sidearm for use after the pilum was expended. Later the gladius was exchanged for the spatha, a longer sword, as it always becomes obvious that range is king on the battlefield. Auxiliaries' primary weapons were always polearms or bows/slings.
  14. Cannikin Elder

    Really? Your historical source is a Netflix dramatization?

    The katana and similar Japanese swords were status symbols more than anything, like swords in Europe were, as owning anything with that much steel, time and expense in their manufacture was rare, especially in Japan where iron was not in great supply. Also being able to practice kenjutsu (swordsmanship) indicated being of high-class with spare time, as opposed to laborers who had neither the time nor money to do so. Carrying them was a matter of honor rather than as as practical open battle implements. Before their advent the primary weapon and status symbol for samurai was the yumi (Japanese longbow). Either case could be carried outside of battle, either on the waist in scabbards, or slung on the back, which is why you will see samurai depicted with them more often, as opposed to spears which need to be actively carried in hand.

    Katana/wakizashi's usefulness generally was in to one-on-one duels in close quarters, and even then it has been demonstrated multiple times that even one-on-one a combatant with a light spear can usually defeat a swordsman thanks to longer reach and quicker attack (thrusting is faster than swinging) when not in restricted, tight quarters (i.e. inside a building).

    In a general open battle, katana and wakizashi were sidearms (as well as status symbols again), only as backup if your primary yari (spear), naginata or bow were disabled, just like today soldiers are issued pistols as sidearms that only come out if their rifle were somehow unusable.

    Attacking a spear formation with a katana is asking to be skewered every time.
    Szilent likes this.
  15. Cannikin Elder

    Spears would still be superior to swords in a forest. Trees are rarely dense enough to restrict maneuvering with a spear, and their attack only needs to thrust (or just passively block chokepoints), which requires less room than swinging a sword. You can thrust a sword too, but that is inferior in every way to a spear.

    In buildings it becomes more a matter of practicality, as narrow passages like doorways are hard to maneuver through, so a short sword would be easier (longswords would have the same problem as spears). One might argue a long dagger would be even better. Fighting in city streets, generally the same applies as to the forest example above.

    Outside of battle, swords have the advantage of being hands free carried in scabbards, as opposed to polearms which need to be held in hand at all times.
  16. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    You realize that "brief" time is 500-600 years? (2nd-3rd Centure BC/BCE until 300+ AD/CE?) Additionally, Calvary never stopped using some form of spear as the primary weapon. Additionally, (and as I stated, summarizing the author) that different divisions within the legions used different armaments. The Romans, especially, were not so foolish as to send one type of unit into battle.
  17. Cannikin Elder

    Perhaps you need to read your source again.
    In case it's not clear, the "3rd century BCE" is the 200's BC. It says after the "wars with Carthage" (Punic Wars), the second of which ended in 202 BC. By 107 BC (2nd century BC) they had returned to using the pilum. So a period of less than 100 years. Then the pilum would be used until the "3rd century CE" (200's AD), so 300-400 years of use later.

    Wikipedia indicates the spiculum (an improved spear) was adopted by 250 AD. Your source says in the "4th century CE" (300's AD) legionnaires were all equipped with the spiculum, so it's unclear if there was any period between abandoning the pilum and adopting the spiculum.
  18. Szilent Augur

    Which Netflix special should I watch to figure out what melee weapon is best against ulthorks or undead sharks, or mammoths, or ifrit, or robots? or to counter necromantic dots and magical comets?

    Alternately, what timestamp in the video already presented deals with the 6-"human"-combatants-on-1-monster encounters typical in EQ?
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  19. shiftie Augur

  20. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    The pilum was primarily a throwing spear, with a "weak" shank which would bend after impact. The gladius was the primary fighting weapon during that time, until the advent of the spiculum, which fared as both a melee weapon and a ranged spear.

    You forgot this part from your wiki quote (along with there being 0 references backing up that Wiki page) :

    Also this from the Pilum wiki page: