Why nerf melee belts slow proc?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Siphon, May 14, 2019.

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  1. Yimin Augur

    Yes I do think it is a massive game changer ! And you know its true or you would not be so insulting here ....

    YiMin
  2. Smokezz Augur

    And if they honestly thought people would swap belts... damn. Maybe if you took 30 minutes to kill a mob.
  3. Laeadern Lorekeeper

    I may have been a tad overzealous but i do not think they are a massive game changer. You still can't be serious to believe that they are...when any slower in a group would just simply overwrite it anyways...its not like it mitigates the desire of a group to have an actual slower class in their group...so i still say you are wrong about them being overpowered. That being said i apologize for my comment.
  4. Nennius Augur

    Re: the decision to nerf the belts:

    [IMG]
    BadPallyGuildLeader likes this.
  5. Funk Augur

    So where is your post from five years ago about Usasium saying it's a massive game changer and OP? Where is the post from four years ago about Bolstered Belt of Boromas saying the same thing?
    Or from three years ago about Gird of Sleetscale or the Golden Knights Belt?
    Or two with Cactus Leaf Belt or Vital Phlogiston Belt?
    Or just last year when TBL was released...where was the post that these belts were OP and massive game changers?

    No, all the sudden after GMM was released and they made a change with dual procs on belts. That's when this all began. It's absurd how a conversation about bringing one belt up to par with others results in a global nerf on all slow belts... And it was about pumping up caster belts a bit, not destroying all tank belts from the current expansion all the way back to TDS.
    Pathetic DBG, pathetic.
  6. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    Let's be honest, tanks have the only belt effects that are made useless by simply adding another person to the group/raid. Why do they need nerfed? Because whiners.

    And the real reason the older belts were nerfed? So their new babies, the combined procs, aren't worse than older procs.
    Xeladom, Allayna and Funk like this.
  7. I-WANT-IT-NOW Elder

    If they only worked on your targeted mob like SK leech effects than they were fine as they were. When you could pull 35 mobs at once and simultaneously slow or cripple or combo all of them at once yeah its a just a tad bit concerning. It wasn't casters complaining for a chance to proc them that got these changed.
  8. smash Augur

    I like this, so would say:

    Increase it back to 50%, make it work on only targeted mob, and decrease the duration to 30 sec.
    Advantage back to 50% and you cannot use it to pull the multiple targets like tanks normally do, you can still do, but it runs out after 30 sec.
  9. Tuco Journeyman

    I don't really mind the nerf. I don't like the idea that tanks could put on an item that automatically performs a substantial portion of what one of the key contributions an enc/brd/sha/nec have historically done manually. I like that EQ is strongly group-based and movements toward encouraging cooperation by strengthning class boundaries is fine by me.
    Yimin likes this.
  10. Allayna Augur

    Going to point out that many many mobs in swarming on the SK never get slowed with the proc. If you think that they instantly slowed 15 mobs, you're dreaming.

    SK:

    Combined: A Bloodmoon darkfist on 5/15/2019

    SK - 5270
    --- Banestrike - 148
    --- Blessing of Unity - 7
    --- Bond of Bonemaw Rk. II - 17
    --- Bond of Ralstok Rk. II - 3
    --- Bond of Xalgoz Rk. II - 34
    --- Concordant Disruption Rk. II - 13
    --- Crimson/Carmine/Scarlet/Claret Rage - 5
    --- Crippling Glare Beza V - 0
    --- Cursed Guardian Lifetap II - 950
    --- Dark Lord's Unity Azia VIII - 1
    --- Defiant Stance Rk. II - 20
    --- Dichotomic Fang - 66
    --- Dire Testimony Rk. II - 12
    --- Explosion of Hatred VI - 14
    --- Explosion of Spite V - 2
    --- First Spire of the Reavers IV - 5
    --- Geomantra XXIII - 1
    --- Hair-Raising Shriek - 0
    --- Harm Touch XXIX - 5
    --- Ice Squall - 0
    --- Inevitable End - 0
    --- Insidious Denial Rk. II - 52
    --- Jann's Light - 458
    --- Jinx - 0
    --- Leech Touch II - 5
    --- Lesson of the Devoted - 1
    --- Lich Sting - 16
    --- Mawmun's Bite - 0
    --- Mawmun's Venom - 0
    --- Mourgis' Decay - 0
    --- Nexona's Spear of Venom - 0
    --- Precise Disruption II - 0
    --- Presence of Fear III - 0
    --- Ragged Bite of Agony III - 0
    --- Received Vie - 7
    --- Refute for Power Rk. II - 115
    --- Reinforced Malaise V - 5
    --- Rousing Consumption - 1
    --- Scourge Skin VI - 6
    --- Shield Flash - 5
    --- Shroud of the Krellnakor Strike II - 435
    --- Slain - 0
    --- Soul Carapace/Shield/Guard - 6
    --- Stream of Hatred IV - 1
    --- T`Vyl's Resolve III - 7
    --- Tendon Slice - 1549
    --- Terror of Kra`Du Rk. II - 19
    --- Thought Leech VIII - 1
    --- Touch of Falsin - 60
    --- Touch of Hemofax Rk. II - 14
    --- Touch of Lutzen Rk. II - 95
    --- Touch of T`Vem Rk. II - 127
    --- Touch of the Cursed XXX - 480
    --- Tylix's Horror Strike II - 392
    --- Tylix's Skin Rk. II - 42
    --- Vermistipus's Pandemic - 0
    --- Vicious Bite of Chaos XI - 67
    --- Visage of Death VII - 7
    --- Visage of Decay VII - 1

    Produced by GamParse v2.0.0.83 BETA

    Of those 1549 procs against 369 mobs....there were 545 resists, so 1004 successful procs of slow against GMM (undertuned) mobs.

    In raids on day one:

    Combined: Seneschal Radiant Propensity on 5/13/2019

    Allayna - 2220
    --- Admonish Rk. III - 46
    --- Banestrike - 88
    --- Beacon of the Righteous X - 4
    --- Blackguard's Synergy Strike II - 37
    --- Blessing of Life XXIII - 145
    --- Blunted Strike III - 5
    --- Brilliant Exoneration Rk. III - 28
    --- Censure Rk. III - 245
    --- Condemnation Strike III - 97
    --- Crippling Glare Caza V - 0
    --- Defiant Stance Rk. III - 2
    --- Dissident Force - 37
    --- Dissident Roar Strike 6 - 142
    --- Force of Disruption XVII - 226
    --- Force of Mercy Rk. III - 108
    --- Force of the Timorous Deep Rk. III - 13
    --- Gift of Life VII - 3
    --- Gift of Resurrection I - 1
    --- Group Armor of the Inquisitor IV - 1
    --- Hallowed Lodestar VIII - 9
    --- Harmonious Blessing Rk. III - 6
    --- Inquisitor's Judgment Strike XXVI - 125
    --- Inquisitor's Judgment XXVI - 5
    --- Intensity of the Resolute - 1
    --- Jann's Light - 145
    --- Lesser Yaulp IV - 218
    --- Lesson of Expiation Rk. III - 10
    --- Merciful Force Rk. III - 18
    --- Merciful Fury Strike III - 134
    --- Merciful Touch Rk. III - 2
    --- Preservation of Rodcet Rk. III - 3
    --- Projection of Piety III - 1
    --- Protective Devotion Rk. III - 1
    --- Pureforge Disc - 5
    --- Received Auspice of the Hunter - 13
    --- Received Commanding Voice - 7
    --- Received Cry Havoc - 1
    --- Received Paragon - 7
    --- Received Shaman Epic - 4
    --- Refute for Honor Rk. III - 16
    --- Resurrection - 4
    --- Second Spire of Holiness IV - 6
    --- Shield Flash - 2
    --- Shrink - 2
    --- Spike of Magic V - 8
    --- Splash of Depuration Rk. III - 32
    --- Tendon Slice - 65
    --- Thunder of Karana II - 6
    --- Valiant Diversion Rk. III - 163
    --- Valorous Rage IX - 5

    Produced by GamParse v2.0.0.83 BETA
    5 Resists of the 65, so 60 landed and then quickly overwritten and 0 net benefit to the player.
    Day 2:
    Combined: Radiant Fog Evening on 5/14/2019
    Allayna - 1933
    --- Admonish Rk. III - 43
    --- Banestrike - 50
    --- Beacon of the Righteous X - 1
    --- Blessed Guardian Heal III - 83
    --- Blessing of Life XXIII - 118
    --- Brell's Blessed Bastion Rk. III - 1
    --- Censure Rk. III - 208
    --- Circle of Power IV - 1
    --- Condemnation Strike III - 75
    --- Crippling Glare Caza V - 0
    --- Defiant Stance Rk. III - 1
    --- Dissident Force - 37
    --- Dissident Roar Strike 6 - 90
    --- Divine Call III - 1
    --- Drunken Wandering - 1
    --- Flames of the Valiant - 1
    --- Flames of the Valiant Strike - 7
    --- Force of Disruption XVII - 200
    --- Force of Mercy Rk. III - 88
    --- Force of the Timorous Deep Rk. III - 19
    --- Gift of Life VII - 2
    --- Gift of Resurrection I - 1
    --- Glyph of Dragon Scales IV - 1
    --- Group Armor of the Inquisitor IV - 3
    --- Hallowed Lodestar VIII - 2
    --- Harmonious Blessing Rk. III - 3
    --- Inquisitor's Judgment Strike XXVI - 100
    --- Inquisitor's Judgment XXVI - 4
    --- Jann's Light - 110
    --- Lesser Yaulp IV - 180
    --- Lesson of Expiation Rk. III - 9
    --- Merciful Force Rk. III - 26
    --- Merciful Fury Strike III - 104
    --- Necromantic Curse - 1
    --- Preservation of Rodcet Rk. III - 1
    --- Protective Devotion Rk. III - 4
    --- Pureforge Disc - 3
    --- Received Auspice of the Hunter - 3
    --- Received Commanding Voice - 9
    --- Received DI - 1
    --- Received Paragon - 6
    --- Received Shaman Epic - 7
    --- Refute for Honor Rk. III - 5
    --- Resurrection - 6
    --- Second Spire of Holiness IV - 3
    --- Shield Flash - 5
    --- Shield of Brilliance XV - 1
    --- Shrink - 2
    --- Slain - 0
    --- Spike of Magic V - 7
    --- Splash of Depuration Rk. III - 81
    --- Tendon Slice - 79
    --- Thunder of Karana II - 3
    --- Valiant Diversion Rk. III - 143
    --- Valorous Rage IX - 4
    --- Wave of Expiation Rk. III - 15
    Produced by GamParse v2.0.0.83 BETA
    8 resists of 79, so 71 lands and then quickly overwritten by shaman in the raid force, again, 0 net benefit to a tank. We will likely all be going for the combo heal proc/dd belt now.

    These numbers speak more to the proc rate/success rate than to how often they actually slow....because you can re-proc it on the already slowed mob.
  11. Natal Augur



    The reason was that the new combined effect belts were considered to be too powerful, so the individual effects were halved in order to make the combined effect more or less equivalent to older effects. At that point people complained that there was now no point in upgrading their old belts. The effects of the old belts were then reduced so that these folk now had a reason to upgrade to new belts.

    That is basically how I saw things unfolding :)
    Daedly and Syylke_EMarr like this.
  12. Natal Augur



    Whether tanks could or could not do this to a limited extent I don't think is a problem when it comes to specialist slowers. They still have to slow anyway, even with the belts. What the slow proc belts allow however is tougher content. If you have content where initial incoming mobs have to be slowed to be manageable, making some element of slow more generally available allows you to great content that is more difficult overall, because you are reducing the gap between pre and post debuff damage.

    In the long term I think this change should be accompanied by a reduction in mob dps output, along with increased slow mitigation to compensate, since current content was designed with the assumption of the old slow belts being in placed.
  13. Tuco Journeyman

    I've never parsed the uhh, "uptime" my slow belts got on group mobs but this data matches my what I've found from keeping an eye on the debuff list of mobs where you really don't get a slow to stick on the mob very quickly.
  14. Natal Augur



    That is not really the point, it reduces the probability of taking damage during the opening phases of the encounter. Of course it has to proc, and for that you have to get hit, but if you have multiple mobs in camp chances are good that it will before your slower has a chance to get around to them all. Saying that effects like this are not important is being short sighted and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the utility of the belts. In any encounter the greatest risk occurs generally when mobs first arrive in camp, and that is where the utility of these effects is most effective.

    Are they critical? No. Will they reduce the chances of a wipe on a bad pull? You can bet your behind that they do.
  15. Bamboompow Augur

    Be interesting to see if Cicelee posts anything to effect if this was the desired outcome and if those in his/her orbit concur with this outcome. Doubt that will happen. Might be best to just lay low, eh Cicelee?

    Sorry to overuse a cliche...but this is why we can't have nice things.
    Duder likes this.
  16. Nennius Augur

    Tap Tap Tap -------------- Bueller!!!!!!!!!!!
  17. Allayna Augur

    They do not reliably land without tash/malo.
  18. Fian Augur

    Mixed feelings about this as an enchanter. I have suffered under the nerf bat for the past few years, so a part of me thinks "good! Now you know my pain." On the other hand, I wouldn't wish nerfs on anyone.

    I don't think the point of the nerf was to impact the raid game (although it will have some impact off tanking adds), but in the group game. Tanks are very good at soloing, and frankly we could use more tanks LFG to encourage more grouping. Weaken their ability to solo, and they will be looking for more people to join them in groups. So, maybe this will be effective, although I would probably have targeted their dps instead (warriors I am looking at you). As an enchanter, I don't really care to slow every single trash mob that is brought to a group. I would rather slow the bosses, and focus on dps on trash mobs to earn exp faster instead.

    This nerf does show the poor thinking of DB. When they nerf something, they REALLY nerf things. Cut the effectiveness of the belt in half. Instead of going from 50 to 25, why not lower it to 35? I still remember the recast time of enchanter self runes from 30 to 10 seconds done during the EOK era. If I were them, I would wield nerfs more gently, and look for rebalancing more on future expansions/level increases. If you think a class is OP, nerf them gently, and give them a smaller power increase the next level expansion.
    Tucoh likes this.
  19. Ruven_BB Augur

    Seems like a huge overreach that is going to really hurt grouping players less geared than a raiding tank.

    Ruven
    BadPallyGuildLeader likes this.
  20. Warpeace Augur


    This is exactly who it will effect:(.

    However I'm sure someone will try and blame the uber raiders.
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