Why is necro twice the dps of other classes?

We're currently raiding in the Rain of Fear expansion and necro class is easily twice the dps of any other class. Occasionally, they'll triple our other high dps players.

To players:
I didn't post this to TLP because I'd like to ask the veteran players on live - does this continue for a long time?

To DBG:
What's the reasoning behind leaving the game in this state?

Same reason an SK has been the most op class for the majority of the games existance, and why druids almost worse healers than paladins.
The devs don't really care much about class balance. Though in the necro case, this can only happen on raids and has two additional constraints:
1. only 2ish necros can do it because of limited buff slots
2. it requires the rest of the raid to cooperate to boost the necro, as they cannot use their abilities that take up buff slots.

I'm not trying to make excuses for it because there are balance issues. However, NEC is in a really bad place on trash clears, groups and anything burst DPS. NEC do exceptionally well on mobs that are alive a long time. Although the % of difference is probably an issue, there is a good reason for the NEC to always be the highest DPS on a raid boss while being poor DPS on adds and trash clears.

NEC do very well but I haven't seen them doubling the DPS on the average. Topping the DPS but not doubling. Melee had been in a really bad place but they have been putting efforts into fixing that.

At some point they redid all the dots in an effort to make stacking easier, better, when there was a limited number of slots. They over powered the dot spells/classes making necros the DPS king/queen you are seeing.

Over time they have been stagnating the dot spells, but, necros can be very high on the parse, depending on the type of fight.

If you have a boss fight where they can stay on the boss 100% they are going to do great.

If you have a fight with lots of lower hp adds, or its a control fight where you have to manage the boss's HP then they are going to suffer.

They also revamped the total number of buff slots on mobs and we can now stack multiple necros. Prior to that you could only really use 1-2 necros, or you'd run out of debuff slots.

To answer your questions:
- For a long time...sort of. From what little I understand, most TLPs by RoF era are either not doing 54 character raids or allow boxing. Boxed toons are never at full dps. Longer raids lead to better numbers by necros. But if anything the recent increase of NPC buff slots might make the problem feel worse in your era as necros no longer have competition for buff slots (and roster spots) in raids.

I can say current Live is very competitive-ish. Since we've recently had both the NPC buff slots double (again) and the melee weapon rescale, it's hard to know just how balances have changed without going through those eras again with 54 person raid forces.

They did take the necro epic away which you should start to see ... I think.

-I'll answer for DBG by laughing at you. They don't care about class balance. Never have.

This has been pretty much fixed with all the weapon upgrades they did from tbl to current. Just wait until next expac, the standard weapon upgrade is gonna put melee so far past casters it'll be a new game.

The dot consolidation made them far too powerful.

Necro's are still top DPS in my guild on live.

Depends on the fight and the quality of the other players. Yes, Necros are amazing DPS right now on raids where they have time for all their dots to rack up the damage. But I have also seen poorly played Necros that way down in the Parse. But other classes can be up where they are when supported by the right group and played well. Have seen Monks, Rangers, rogues, berserkers and Necros all break 2.5 million DPS.

As a long time necro I would say its because it takes more than twice the skill to excel as a necro as it does other classes.

The dot consolidation just made it easier, but it still takes more effort to play a necro at a high level. There is a lot of moment by moment decisions you have to make. There is no rotation like other classes. People always ask me how to play a necro and the answer is always the same. It depends.

Imagine a flow chart in your head with decision branching based on second by second variables that are changing and taking into account things like probabilities of resists, whats the best duration spell to use, is it better to nuke etc. The people who can handle this type of gameplay are better players, and necro attracts this kind of player in my experience because it rewards high effort.

If your necros were playing mages or wizards they would probably do well on those classes because these are your high effort players.

Just gonna give my mage pets t1 weapons I guess to keep up.

Ever also look at full parses? What are the necros doing on Adds for DPS? Slim to none, Melee dps are smoking Adds while doing less dps on the boss but also in the same token they do not get the keep dots ticking away on a locked mob or on anything when its going, As a necro you can dot the boss and if it locks the dots are still ticking for damage causing the increase in DPS.

As in ROF if your Wizards are not a close 2nd in raid fights then they are not good. Wizards are powerful in ROF and can come close to necro on longer burns but on shorter burst burns they smoke them.

Every class has its position in EQ and every class does it job that's how a raid should be. If you want to beat the necro so bad just become the necro. Or be better at your class to strive to be better than said necro!

I'm not sure if this applies currently due to dot consolidation and
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/game-update-notes-may-18-2022.282966/

However, I have not really checked this so I could be wrong.

On live, while Necros still perform well, there are a number of other DPS classes that will outperform Necros depending on event type/length. Necros will perform more favorably in lower tier guilds that have longer events/fewer burst AE situations.

As others have noted, they perform well on TLPs because of retroactive changes (DoT revamp + Enhanced Ruin) that were not well balanced when looking backwards. There are other changes like the Innate melee AA lines that similarly provide out-of-era damage boosts to some classes.

Every EQ class is hard to maximize, and that's certainly true of Necros. That said, post-revamp they are really not very hard to perform well on (similar to most DPS classes), particularly because the revamp + enhanced ruin concentrated most of Necro's DoT power into a relative minority of DoTs. It's not as simple as spamming a multibind, but appropriately applying the three highest damage DoTs to multiple targets and maintaining pet/proc/etc. damage really does get you a good chunk of the way there if you look at dps breakdowns. Things like choosing when to nuke, which secondary/tertiary DoTs to use, etc., take a lot of work but produce much less payoff on the margin (similar to many other EQ classes).

This is not typical of the era. You don't say if you are the one playing the necro. For that amount of disparity, either you have a very strong necro player, or else you have too many guildies watching Netflix during raid nights.

You will see some more balancing efforts as the game progresses; others have already mentioned a dot revamp. However, there has never been any magic balancing trick in the game that can overcome bad or unattentive players.

How hard is a class when your best spell (by a considerable margin) has no lockout?

I am not sure what your point is. You think necros cast just 1 spell and do tons of damage? Is that what you're implying because if that is the case you're quite ignorant of how necros work.

Like others said it is largely due to the DoT revamp/consolidation that happened a few years back that primarily affected DoTs level 75+. After like TSS Necros go kinda nuts on TLP servers now as the consolidation wasn't really made with TLP balance in mind. I don't know when, if ever, the DoT revamp changes start to taper off in terms of how much more damage they do now vs. when expansions were current but from parses I've seen they stay pretty close to the top.

No, I was making fun of your statements about how "hard" the necro is to play. I thought it was pretty obvious.

Sancus said it pretty much correctly. Any class is fairly easy today to get to good proficiency. Performing great in any (most?) classes requires working the margins and most importantly, having the right adps and being in sync. Necros are not special or unique in this regard.

At one point necros walking up hills in the snow both ways might have been a little more relevant. Now they just take the Escalades to and from like all the classes do. Vroom, vroom.

You say that like you play a necro, but to me I doubt you do.

We're not talkign about proficient, any lazy bastard can be proficient. We're talking about the case where necros are doubling the dps of other classes (which is probably hyperbole), but having been that necro who shows up and mops the floor with other dps classes I can tell you there is a big difference between proficient as you say and going way beyond that.

Its all about effort in should equal effort out, and no other class than necro has to micromanage so many things at once, its a fact. Name another class that has to keep track of as many spells as a necro. Name another class that has to have as many keybinds as a necro.

Your argument is so reductive to me, its a joke. Go play a necro and let us know how it works out for you since its so easy. My guess is you wouldn't do 70% of the dps as a top necro, probably even less. You'd get overloaded with the amount of information necros have to keep track of guaranteed because I have seen your type before. It seems easy because for top necros who have been doing this for decades it is.

I stand by my argument, the necros in these raids doing more dps than everyone else is because they are better players. They would take your comparatively easy class to play and leave you in the dust.