why is my rogue dps so low at level 90?

Discussion in 'Melee' started by jboots, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. jboots New Member

    I have a rogue monk and bst at level 90 with comparable gear and aa and the rogue does half the dps of the other two in a xp grind situation. I use all the 30 sec abilities, thief eyes, bs and poisons but it's still really low. What should my rotation be in an xp group?
  2. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    Basic question that must be asked, do you always have the Rogue behind the mob?
  3. Picaresque Augur

    Your world changes at level 98 with Knifeplay.
  4. Bobokin Augur

    Rogues keep getting the short end of nerfs on frontal attacks and defenses.

    They do DPS from behind, so they are basically crap toe to toe, and the devs like it that way.
  5. Masse The Butcher Journeyman

    rogue is very dependent on AA, weapons and heroics. takes a lot of hard work to get a rogue up to snuff. once you max them out they are pretty hard to beat.
  6. Dewey Augur

    Rogue dps is dependant on backstab damage. Since you have group weapons your rogue dps will always be decades behind everyone else. To have equivalent damage to other mellee toons you have to raid, and then you will have equivalent dps to raid toons.

    On the plus side all you need is 1 dagger and your dps will drastically go up. The backstab damage on the primary is the only thing that matters for that.
  7. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    Group weapons don't put you decades behind anyone else, unless you are comparing yourself to raiders instead of groupers. And even compared to raiders the difference isn't going to be decades.
  8. Dewey Augur

    The ratio is the same. The backstab damage is way behind. Since the backstab damage is most of a rogues dps. It does put you behind others.
    Rebelicious likes this.
  9. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    Again, only if you're comparing yourself to raiders.
  10. MagicMysteryTour New Member

    I don't know about that.

    Monks flying kick isn't tied to a raid weapon and is a giant part of their dps. And while very tied to weapons a zerkers dissident or dicho plays a massive part of their dps. Rogues very much fall behind their relative peers from my experiences because both backstab and normal melee are tied to their weapons. And don't get me started on 2h benefits trumping 1h in almost any setting.

    An equal berserker is always better dps in any setting unless a rogue runs around with 6 assassinations a minute.

    A monk burns for higher and have enough other stuff and passive dps to remain right with rogues. No backside limitations and all the benefits from 2h amplification from AA and buffs.
    Rebelicious likes this.
  11. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    Flying Kick in and of itself is not a giant part of our dps, abilities which trigger Flying Kick and/or modify it are. With those combat abilities having more powerful raid versions as well as raiders having higher amounts of endurance enabling them to use more often. The Monk Dicho is one of those abilities, and it plays just as much a part in Monk dps as it does in zerkers.
    Monks and Zerker's normal melee are tied to weapons. So they are not falling behind because of that.
    I would say that the Dev's are expecting various high endurance-cost combat abilities and disciplines to be used more regularly than most do.
  12. Lubianx Augur

    You are forgetting, that once you get it, rogue alliance/covenant does not require a raid of rogues to trigger, it can be triggered by other classes (unlike other alliances/covenants except healers). That's a fair bit of DPS there for a potential group without requiring a raid or a group full of 1 class unlike other classes (limitations)
  13. MagicMysteryTour New Member

    The total of everything Flying kick: the skill, activatables, procs, etc. AA's and the 125% mod with 100% uptime are shared by all monks and are what makes flying kick in total special. Outside of the increases to activatables a group monk has 95% of the flying kick power of a raid monk.

    A rogues backstab power is tied to a group weapon and never gets near that close to a raid rogue.

    In the group game a monk and rogues dicho are no where near the power of a zerkers. A zerker self pairs braxi with dicho on any mob every minute and thats that. A monk and rogue do not get ideal settings for its duration every 5 minutes.
  14. MagicMysteryTour New Member

    This is true but not always the case in a group either depending on its makeup. Way more ideal than others though.
  15. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    You again misrepresent where Monk DPS comes from regarding FK. The difference between a group monk's dps and a raid monk's dps is just as much as the difference between a group rogue's and a raid rogue's dps. The activatables which you claim to exclude are exactly where the majority of the dps comes from.
    As far as dicho's go, you provide no proof of this. You have Zerker's pairing a second ability with it, monks and rogues can both pair other abilities with their Dicho, which while not as high as 'zerkers (which is intended) offer an equivalent increase to their dps, which keeps them in their spot in the dps hierarchy.
  16. MagicMysteryTour New Member

    You sound very confused about monks in general and flying kick.

    Monks base flying kick skill is not based on a weapon. So its the same for group or raid.
    Thunderfoot is the same for group or raid.
    Focusing of Brithax is same for group or raid.
    Kick mastery is the same for group or raid.
    Resonant kicks is the same for group or raid.
    Technique of Master Wu is the same for group or raid.
    Zan Fi is the same for group or raid.
    Infusion of Thunder is the same for group or raid.
    Drunken Monkey is the same for group or raid. This is 1 group stuff now.
    Ironfist is the same for group or raid. This is 1 group stuff now.
    Heel of Zagali is the same for group or raid. This is 1 group stuff now.
    The 125% increase to incoming flying kicks from the Synergy line is the same group or raid.

    Heron Stance has a 2.5% difference in base power between rank 2 and 3.
    Icewalker's Synergy has a 2.5% difference in base power between rank 2 and rank 3.
    Each are focused equally from Focus AA lines.

    You are claiming a 2.5% difference for 2 skills between group and raid monks as some big gap. And then ignoring that backstab is tied directly to a group or raid weapon. The comparison was between a group monk and rogue originally. Saying that a monk has less eggs in one basket having equivalent flying kick damage to a raid monk. When a rogue does not.
  17. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    And yet, the difference between Group monk DPS and Raid Monk DPS is the same as the difference between Group Rogue DPS and Raid Rogue DPS.
  18. MagicMysteryTour New Member

    But it’s not. Massive jump but smaller so. It’s clear you are someone who likes to post, information and accuracy be damned.
  19. Winnowyl Suffering is optional.

    The 88 backstab damage on group vs 114 backstab damage on raid is what the rogues are talking about. So much of our damage is tied up in our backstabs, that the difference between the two is evident. That is 100% tied to whether you're getting a group weapon or a raid weapon. No amount of AA's makes up for the difference.

    As to how big the difference is in a practical setting, I couldn't tell you. I don't have a group weapon, so I won't speak to that.
  20. Bobokin Augur

    From behind, rogues should out-damage all other melee hands down. There is no way that a zerker or monk should be able to out-damage a rogue with similar weapons and aa levels if the rogue is behind the target. From the front, rogues should do less damage than monks and zerkers. So maybe 5% more from the rear and 5% less from in front. It should parse out that way often.

    But ... it doesn't.