Why Don't Caster Mobs Ever Fizzle Spells?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Brontus, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. Brontus Elder

    I've been playing EverQuest on and off for nearly 19 years. Not once have I ever seen a caster mob fizzle a spell. Why is this?

    Do level one orc apprentices who never, ever fizzle spells, go to a special academy of magic where they learn spells that never fizzle?

    The NPC caster is the most deadly, over-powered opponent in all of EQ. We've all seen them cast spells that are impossible to interrupt (such as Complete Heal) despite the fact that 20 melee players are beating on them. Of course, by now we all know and have been conditioned to suspend our disbelief that NPCs seem to live in a world of different spell mechanics when many (despite having a robust resist mechanic that works) are mysteriously immune to stun, root, mez, snare and charm for no legitimate reason.

    We also see raid NPCs with special mitigation buffs as well. Some of us have seen dragons cast AoE spells for over an hour that cost no mana whatsoever. Then there's the ability that some mobs have to magically summon players without having to spend mana or incur a cost. The EQ player puts up with a lot of inexplicable and perplexing NPC mechanics and abilities.

    Player casters experience fizzles all the time, yet NPCs casters never fizzle. Was this an oversight on the part of the original EQ dev team to forget to include this? How hard would it be to implement this?

    I realize this is a small thing to fix in the grand scheme of things, but it making NPC casters fizzle spells would help increase the verisimilitude in EQ. Thanks for listening :)
    Fle2ch likes this.
  2. Bobbybick Augur

    Charm a caster mob and let Thought Horror Overfiend land Feeblemind on it.
  3. CaptainSkeet Augur

    Raid NPCs are supposedly strong, magical creatures (mostly) which likely got to be raid level by having special abilities like an innate skill (spell) they can use indefinitely or at least for an hour or two to defeat their enemies.

    Now why an orc would never fizzle I couldn’t say. Maybe since they only have a few spells they can cast, they have mastered it to a point where fizzling is simply not gonna happen. Theoretically, all these monsters are mostly stronger than us mere mortals of similar skill, so they can do things we can’t.
  4. niente Developer

    Fizzling is coded to include PCs and mercenaries only. Not sure why other than that. It checks things like your casting skill and which spell slot you are trying to cast. Maybe those are things that don't exist for NPCs (I don't know).

    The NPCs casting spells for over an hour thing is because many NPCs cast spells via scripting, and it doesn't cost them mana. It also doesn't have a cast time, so you won't be able to interrupt them.

    There are some comments in EQ code of things to "do later" that may have been written there in 1999. At this point, it almost wouldn't be the game that it is by adding them in now.
    Herf, Felicite, Gana and 5 others like this.
  5. a_librarian Augur

    That's interesting, thanks for the information.

    Also a random question that is probably unanswerable: do identical caster mobs (same name/level and everything) have different preference for spells they're likely to cast?

    Just an observation fighting necromancer undead, some of them are incredibly Fear happy and will try casting it 5 times in a fight, then the next 20 won't even try casting it once. It made me wonder if mobs of the same name/level had multiple profiles of what spells they are likely to cast. Whatever the case the variety makes fights more interesting for sure.
  6. CaptainSkeet Augur

    I bring lore reasoning, Niente brings programming reasons!

    Just allow NPCs to have complete heal interrupted more easy and I’ll send you 5$
  7. Rickate Augur

    PCs didn't fizzle for 10 or so years from the introduction of Mastery of the Past AA until someone posted on the boards that MotP 2+ was useless as Spell Casting Expertise 3 and MotP 1 prevented all fizzles.

    NPCs still don't fizzle because they weren't dumb enough to inform the Devs that they don't fizzle.
  8. taliefer Augur

    any chance you can share an example or two of the "do later" things?~ would be fascinating to know things that people wanted to add to eq at some point.
  9. Boze Augur

    Honestly really glad y'all have this perspective. I can't imagine some of the code archaeology y'all end up doing.
  10. Brontus Elder

    Thanks for the reply and insight!
  11. Zanarnar Augur

    sorry, but does the slot you have the spell memorized in actually have an effect on its chance to fizzle? If so can you elaborate a bit? Do spells in the lower number, or higher number slots, have a higher fizzle chance? Or did you simply mean which spell your trying to cast by that?
  12. RandomStrategy Augur

    Please tell us what the "do later" stuff is! That sounds like some interesting things.
  13. qweasy Augur

    I believe spell slots are just the type of spell you're casting. So a mez spell might have a higher fizzle chance than a heal spell or something.
  14. That0neguy Augur

    Is this a typo or am I not reading properly... Does the spell slot your spell is in affect the fizzle rate? like spells in slot 1 will fizzle more then in slot 8?
  15. That0neguy Augur

    Thats what I think he means, but that would be spell type or SPA... not slot.
  16. Numzan Augur

    if that's the case i am putting everything in 8 :)

    Opps typo i mean Slot 8
  17. Prathun Developer

    This is totally answerable. It's not your imagination. Spells have a field indicating the percentage chance that an NPC that fulfills the class and level requirements can memorize it.

    Fear (spell 229) is set to 5%.
    You were dead on with the ratio too. On average, one in 20 of those NPCs that can memorize the spell will.

    Note that this is one of many ways that an NPC can cast a spell.
  18. a_librarian Augur

    Thanks very much for the info! I hadn't considered monsters would memorize spells like PCs, but that makes a lot of sense.

    I can say charming mobs that like to fear has had some hilariously bad results for me. It felt like they were taking revenge on me for keeping them charmed for so long.

    I always appreciate you guys taking time to share your perspective here, thanks again!
    Prathun and Fanra like this.
  19. That0neguy Augur

    This is awesome, thanks for sharing.

    Have you guys ever considered doing a weekly (or more likely monthly) blog/thread that covers a specific topic like this? There is so much mis information out there on mechanics due to peoples bad memories, changes, etc. I know there are a handful of random posts like this that are super helpful and it would be awesome to have a section dedicated to information like this.

    I can think of a whole bunch of topics people who benefit from ranging from Threat and agro, to how Dmg is calculated (both NPC and PC).
    Prathun likes this.
  20. Prathun Developer

    Yeah, that would be fun. It's just a matter of finding the time. :)
    PathToEternity, Boze, Janakin and 5 others like this.

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