Why do Players have physics collision but NPCs do not?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Brontus, Jun 23, 2022.

  1. Brontus EQ Player Activist

    I noticed something yesterday in Unrest on a TLP server. As I turned left to go around the corner in the hallway from the zoneline to enter the Unrest yard, my box stopped following. I ran back and noticed he was stand still beside 3 other AFK players. Suddenly it dawned on me that players have collision physics which had prevented my box from continuing to follow me.

    Then I remembered 23 years ago, when players playing ogres would prevent others from getting to use the bank by blocking their way. Back then, it was a source of much consternation as players had no choice but to petition to get the problem solved and the person playing the ogre was moved or summoned by a GM to allow access to the bank.

    This got me thinking about collision in MMOs and EQ in particular. I logged on various characters and tried running through NPCs like vendors. I soon found out that NPCs do not have any physics collision whatsoever. Players can simply run directly through NPCs including enemy NPCS. Likewise, enemy NPCs can run directly through players.

    This got me thinking about how other MMOs handle this. Sure enough WoW has the same rules for NPC collision which makes sense. However, the difference between EQ and WoW is that in WoW players have no collision. So any player can walk directly through any other player in WoW.

    The the obvioius question came to me:

    Why does EQ have physics collision for players?

    I can only speculate that at one point, the designers figured that players having collision would be more realistic. If this is the case, then why didn't EQ designers give collision to NPCs too? This contradiction fails the consistency test.

    Maybe there are some legitimate reasons for having player collision. Also, there might be possible server or lag overhead that is caused by existing player collision. I think it's worth taking a look at this in more depth.

    I personally think that collision for players should be removed. I don't think it serves any useful purpose having it. Removing collision would make life easier for people who have boxes that follow them around. It would also make raids much easier too as it can be challenging moving your charcter when 40+ people are huddled together, especially when dealing with belly casters like dragons which require everyone to be literally standing on top of each other. Thanks for listening.
    Duder likes this.
  2. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Shrink to minimum size reduces collision radius to zero. Small race or large, you still have to shrink to get the benefit.
  3. Kaenneth [You require Gold access to view this title]

    Pathfinding is a difficult thing for a computer to do ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathfinding#In_video_games ) so the world model on the server that NPCs use is simpler than the world model on the client to players have to navigate. many objects in the game world simply don't exist for NPC *on the server*.

    A major annoyance is when your client predicting where NPCs should be thinks an NPC chasing you should be stuck (like by a locked door) doesn't sync with where the server thinks the NPC is, so the NPC suddenly warps to you in your client view.
  4. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Eliminating collision would simplify and optimize the functions of bad software.

    As stated above, if you have issues with collision, use shrink or an illusion (brownie illusion).
  5. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    NPCs do get stuck, I've done this a few times recently when boxing and pulling through the alt and also when the mob starts to run. But when NPCs get stuck they warp to where they should be, they can also go through walls.....if a player did it they would get banned, but NPCs get away with it.....
  6. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    NPCs having collision would be very exploitable.
    Stymie likes this.
  7. Flatchy Court Jester

    Shrinking to min size may be fine in 3rd party view but if you play in first person I really hate it. (Yeah , no I dont raid anymore) I guess if I just played a caster that sat in one place and used assist and macros it would not matter. Of course everyone boxes anymore so Everybody is a puller these days.
  8. Andarriel Everquest player since 2000

    Why is it we can go right through a NPC but run into a PC and its like a wall? always wondered must be a reason for this?
  9. Nennius Curmudgeon

    Players are much more dense.
    Bigstomp, Dre., Duder and 2 others like this.
  10. Razorfall Augur

    In which way? :p
  11. Nennius Curmudgeon

    To infinity and beyond!
    Duder and Stymie like this.
  12. Joules_Bianchi A certain gnome

    Yet the standard port in location in PoK outside the lobby, players no longer stack on top of each other as they did in port ins everywhere back then. We used to take fall damage falling off the stack of previous ported in players who didn't move off spawnpoint.

    I think not having player collisions would make <all> guild screenies look terrible.
  13. Herf Augur

    I remember this happening when we raided Plane of Sky. End of raid we'd jump off and land in the water of Freeport....and gradually a tower of players would accumulate at the zone in point :)
    Joules_Bianchi and Andarriel like this.
  14. Verily Tjark Augur

    Once upon a time on the Innoruuk Server in the year 2000... An ogre warrior of <Legions of Darkness> named Faaggok blocked the door to Trakanon by the juggs to prevent a rival guild from getting there for the kill, and he famously said "the door is verily blocked".

    This epic moment in EQ history was the inspiration for my character name when I returned.

    [IMG]
    Knifen and Stymie like this.
  15. Stymie Pendragon

    My first thought after reading the thread title was which raid mob to wall in, and how to gain a major benefit by doing so.

    I don't agree with all of their design decisions, but this one makes a lot of sense.
    Nennius likes this.
  16. Brontus EQ Player Activist


    Hello there, just to clarify: I'm calling for the removal of collision for players and not the addition of collision to NPCs.

    A good example just happened to me on the Yelinak server a few minutes ago where a female ogre was inadvertently blocking the entrance to Lower Guk dead side from Upper Guk. My druid who tried to zone died trying to zone.

    Players needlessly die from player collision all the time as zones and hallways are blocked by players simply standing there. I was hoping for some kind of rationale from the devs as to why players have collision in EQ as it does not existing in similar MMOs like WoW.