Why do DDs break root?

Discussion in 'The Newbie Zone' started by Fudly, May 1, 2020.

  1. Duder Augur

    I feel like Kizant's crusade against root rotting is one of personal satisfaction more than anything. It seems he is biased that his class(wizard) has no current means to solo efficiently, therefore nerf the other classes that can. #FlattenEverQuest brought to you by Kizant.

    The game changes and certainly has over the years. Do you think that removing the capability to root rot would have a good impact on the current game? Do you think that the capability to root rot is negatively impacting the current game? How many shaman/druid/necro do you think would rather root rot than group? I can tell you first hand for me that even as a very capable shaman, I would never choose to root rot over a group.

    Perhaps your quest should be to work on granting wizards the capability to solo efficiently (like quad kiting of old), rather than tear other classes methods down to satisfy your own perceived imbalance woes. I don't see even the best DPS'ing shamans putting up wizard DPS in raids, therefore nerf wizard DPS in the group game? Your argument against root rotting is not the same but similar. Classes are different and have different strengths and weaknesses in raids and differing strengths and weaknesses in the group game. If they didn't Everquest wouldn't be nearly as interesting as it is.

    On a side note, many balancing features are in place that increase risk to root rotting. Summoning, summoning-sub-3%, summoning from full health, resists, long recast timers on strong roots, root immunity, random breaks on non-strong roots, all dd procs break root so you need to adjust gear when root rotting, what else am I missing?

    Effective and efficient root rotting takes high levels of patience, close attention to detail, in-depth methodology, good knowledge of class and abilities, good resource management, and good play. Without those things it is nothing impressive.
  2. kizant Augur

    Whether or not root rotting makes sense has nothing to do with what other classes are doing. I don't even have a problems with Wizards ability to solo. They're doing fine as far as I'm concerned. Wizards were brought up previously so I continued to use them as an example.

    I think anything that's low risk/high reward is bad for the game so I'm not just picking on root/rotting. There's plenty of things I'd like changed that most people would probably consider a nerf.
  3. Xenze Elder

    Root rotting, due to the time it takes, is a low risk, low reward (on live servers at least)
    Duder likes this.
  4. SmoochyOfWolfington Augur

    And soloing of course and this I feel was so much more true in Classic. Each and every race/class had a purpose and uniqueness to them. Over the years it feels less and less like EQ and more like everything else out on the market. Regardless I am currently working on a Druid and my first go of one. My root spell and snare seem to break all the time, before I even get to use another spell at times, the root more so than the snare. Is that normal? I figured they were suppose to hold. Are Druid versions just weaker than other class versions or is it something else, maybe due to my low level spells? I am relatively low level, but I am also fighting relatively low level mobs, certainly within my means.
    Duder likes this.
  5. Zinth Augur

    if you are a crybaby over what OTHER classes can do, maybe you are playing the WRONG class... switch class and wipe them tears and move on
  6. kizant Augur

    How does a problem with the game disappear if you change classes?
  7. Fluid Augur

    Sheesh! Just because someone does not know how to do it does not mean it is impossible. Wizard has just as much of a chance of killing something w/o taking damage as a Druid. Simple rules for doing it 1) Buy a horse 2) Get focus effects like extended range 3) Do it in the same places as a Druid<or Necro or Shaman or...>

    It is really trivial. Just blast a MOB, outrun it until you get enough room to cast Root w/o getting slammed^n. I'd have to try it with just Run Speed AAs or Dena, I just can't see it working any different. Seems so less then optimum I wouldn't do it w/o a horse.

    One of the things people haven't really brought out is the 'phat lewt' aspect. The Root rot thing is really outdoors mostly while the good loot is in dungeons. It's a trade off of experience to platinum and equipment.
  8. Zinth Augur

    because it isn't a problem? never has been and yes I have done it with both wizards, druids and necros to max levels
    Duder likes this.
  9. Duder Augur

    Because it is your own personal problem, not a problem with the game.
    Tatanka and Zinth like this.
  10. kizant Augur

    It's my opinion that it's a problem. That's like one of the main reasons the forums exist. I explained why I think it's bad and the only argument for it being 'good' boil down to 'it's been that way a long time' and that early on it was kinda slow and not much fun to do. Those are hardly good arguments. If you were making a new game and someone suggested this feature would either of those help decided whether it's a good idea?
  11. Zalamyr Augur

    I guess this is where we disagree. I don't see it as particularly high reward, given throughout most of EQ it's viable only as an exp mechanism. I guess I never care very much about what the latest "best solo xp" mechanic is, so long as it doesn't involve crashing the server pulling an entire zone.
  12. Duder Augur

    It is still slow. Not quite as slow as it once was. There is still risk. Your point of it being zero risk has been proven wrong. Even saying low risk/high reward really doesn't have much place in the topic considering this entire expansion is low risk/high reward. This is why people have labeled your quest as a "crusade". You have no interest in hearing counter points. Just your opinion that a 21 year old mechanic doesn't fit into Everquest and that everyone else is wrong.
  13. Xenze Elder

    It adds another dynamic/mechanic to the game. It offers another way to play. More options is always a positive thing in a game. You don’t have to enjoy it (God knows I don’t), but that doesn’t default it to being “bad for the game”
    Duder likes this.
  14. kizant Augur

    Having an additional unique mechanic is something I can understand better.
    Xenze and Duder like this.
  15. SmoochyOfWolfington Augur

    Each class is suppose to be different. Some can solo better than others, but it's hell till you hit your second or third wind so to speak. Some classes can not get through hardly without grouping. Some are heavy hitters and can take a punch in the process. Others can not. Each race and class was originally designed to be unique. There were similarities of course, but each was to be able to hold their own and do their own thing one way or another. And even those who found it hard to make or keep plat for whatever reason, could do side jobs to counter any misgivings, at least until expansions came that made it redundant.

    So what the other person(s) meant was, if you do not like how one class plays, choose another as the amount to choose from are quite varied. If you wish what you are playing now to be something else, it is really the only way you can go about it, unless some AA or rare item will change for the better. It's like wanting to be a mage, but you chose a warrior. The best solution to you is to reroll to a mage or the very least a Paladin or Shadow Knight. And even then the Shadow Knight still wont be as powerful a necro in the spell department nor as stout as a warrior. Even the mage classes amongst themselves have differences and are not created equal.

    And of course what race you choice also effects outcomes in the game and one race and class will be at least in part, quite different from a different race, but same class. I hope that helps.
    Duder likes this.
  16. Xenze Elder

    Kizant is describing it correctly. Root rot is a *game* mechanism, and not tied to class. What you’re describing is class specific abilities. I can stop playing a Necro if I don’t like Root Rot, and play a Shaman instead...but it doesn’t change nor take away how/what Root rot is/does.

    What you’re trying to describe by changing classes would be class specific. I don’t like the way Decap for Zerkers work. Changing to a Warrior would fix that “problem”. I don’t like how crit damage is delivered. Changing from a Zerker to a Warrior will not fix that. Kizant not enjoying root rotting will not change anything if he changes classes. That’s just how the game works, regardless of what class you play
    kizant and Prisoner like this.
  17. Duder Augur

    My point is that Kizant homed in on root rotting because of the class he does play whether he admits it or not. His whole stand point is slighted imo.

    He is entitled to feel a certain way about anything he wants, but I've grown tired of his posts ripping on root rotting, amongst other things. It is a mechanic that allows some flavor and variation in eq. All the same as pet tanking, charm kiting, or the use of any class other than a warrior or knight to tank. If he were making his argument 20 years ago it might have been more fitting. But in reality of the modern day eq his argument against it is out of line. If it is Kizant's goal to completely demolish the ability for any class to solo or contribute a variety of things other than their major traits to a group then he is doing a good job.
  18. Xenze Elder

    I know you understood, I was just correcting Smoochy on his line of reasoning/thought :)
    Duder likes this.
  19. kizant Augur

    I like how everyone makes assumptions about my reasoning even after I've given my reasons in detail. I even proposed a change to root and snare that would prevent them from simply being overwritten. That way it would work like charm where you have to wait for them to fade completely before re-applying. This would make it more difficult for wizards to solo as well. I've also been against proposed changes to prevent DDs from breaking root because I think they should break root.

    I want the game to be difficult to solo and anything that makes it very easy and/or is obviously overpowered I'd prefer changed. And yes, I've stated this opinion about root rotting a really long time ago. This isn't new for me.

    The funny thing to me is that every time this comes up a bunch of people jump in to defend this feature as if it's the most important thing in the game for them. If it's too slow and annoying for most people to do it then why make such a big deal about it? It's not like the devs are going to change this just cause of me.
  20. Magickon Elder

    I don't really think root rotting is good enough any longer to be jealous of it. In EoK and RoS it certainly was. But with tov, many things changed that make it not as appealing as it once was.

    Here are some random examples of why it's lost some of it's luster.

    ToV introduced a LOT more sympathetic DD focus effects. A person wanting to kill with root rotting is ultimately going to want to be able to do the most damage per root, especially since the only root that does not have a chance to break early are AA roots, which have a "long" refresh use. Since there are so many more sympathetic DD abilities in ToV than they were previously, a root rot focused playstyle is sacrificing even more damage than they were in prior expansions.

    Recently the group exp bonus was increased yet again. This incentivizes people to group even more than it was previously. I don't think anyone would say this is a bad thing, but it makes it less rewarding to solo.

    I don't have math to support this, but it does seem that the exp gained per kill in relation to the time spent to earn it is inferior once a person is level 111+ and moves to ToV. Sure, dotting classes got some nice upgrades in ToV, but I would argue that it was a better end result in eok and ros than it is in ToV. Again, I don't have data to support it, but it does seem that another reason why this is the case is there is not an obvious example of the best place to root rot in tov. In RoS the obvious best place to root rot was Sathir's Tomb.

    Much like with TBL, many mobs in ToV have completely nasty effects that can make it really difficult for most solo players. I'm pretty sure you've commented on this situation in the past, discussing the racial abilities many monsters in TBL and ToV have.

    Obviously with root rotting necromancers are the best at it. I can only speak for myself, but while root rotting does not seem as great in tov as it did in prior expansions, pet tanking seems to be something that did get slightly better than it was in prior expansions. That's just the way it seems to me, a lot of that obviously is because almost everything in ToV is undead.