Why do DDs break root?

Discussion in 'The Newbie Zone' started by Fudly, May 1, 2020.

  1. Tatanka Augur

    Nobody is ever out of mana for more than 3 minutes. Ever.

    And that's without buffs of any sort.

    The other nice part about OOC regen is, it scales with your mana pool. So, as you add AAs and gear and heroics to increase your mana pool, it's still 3 minutes to go from 0 to FM. Effectively, your per-tick mana regen goes up.

    So, you can make a decent argument for dumping mana quickly, getting your kills, and then resting up to FM for the next round.
  2. Fudly Elder

    Are you being pedantic or are you saying that's the max regen time on live?

    Quad kiting 4 mobs in velious took my whole mana bar, and it took 10 minutes to regen to full with clarity.
  3. Tatanka Augur

    No idea what you're talking about. OOC regen is zero to full in 3 minutes. Works for both mana and HP. No idea on endurance, I've never played an endurance-using class.
  4. Fudly Elder

    Yeah, you're talking about live. TLP servers don't get OOC regen until they reach whatever expansion that adds it.
  5. Tatanka Augur

    I had no idea. Thought everybody got it.

    Never been tempted to play TLP. Now I can guarantee I never will. Did that back in the day (slow med/regen) and had to stare at the book, too, while doing it. Never again.

    Did learn to tick-med, though ;)
  6. Xenze Elder

    As Tatanka said, mana isn’t the issue. The more pressing matter would be mob density and respawn timers. Wizard will clear the camp and then wait idle while the Necro will be able to constantly have 1 mob respawning towards the end of each mob death. Depends on play style, but I’d rather kill 5 mobs in a minute, wait 5 minutes, and kill 5 again in another minute than be constantly killing 1 per minute.

    Killing 2-3 at a time and having a little down time has the “potential” and thus the “efficiency” of yielding more than constantly killing 1 at a time with no down time

    Edit: As per live servers, yes sorry. With the OOC system in place, 3 minutes tops for full mana. Story may be different on other servers
  7. SmoochyOfWolfington Augur

    I can not say anything of why or how something works in the game. I will say however, that not every class is suppose to do the same thing of another, even if they are of the same type, like magic. Just because one class can nuke faster than another, does not mean the other magic classes are suppose to as well, either through nuking or by some other means.
    Dobbs likes this.
  8. Zinth Augur

    the wizard could just cast the AE's, isn't it the Al'Kaborr line that hits 5 where all others hit 4 or have they changed it? so the wizard roots 5 mobs, then AE the down... and wizards ALSO later on get an AE snare... and do quad kiting... so can we just finish up with this "omg why does roots break on nukes" just kite them... and root never breaks
  9. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    At level 70 and after we mostly single kite, or root-nuke(and root does break sometimes!).

    Using AE's on rooted mobs requires that you root all the mobs in the same place, which is not always easy.

    Quadkiting is feasible up to level 65'ish after that our AE's(we use pillars, al'kabor spells are too mana-inefficient) hurts too little compared to mob health.

    Beamkiting is possible, but a beam sometimes backfires on you (2 sec stuns), so its quite risky. I never mastered it tbh

    In theory you could swarmkite with PBAE's and move around with netherstep, I haven't seen it done for real though, as it requires precise timing. Maybe you could snare entire swarms with coldmist guard https://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=60136&source=Live.
    Im not optimistic though :p
  10. Zalamyr Augur

    I feel like there's a lot of live vs tlp opinions being mixed here, which are two totally different sets of circumstances.

    From a live perspective, while I could see the appeal of it for soloing wizards, having DDs not break root could be exceptionally annoying in any situation root is used as a CC. Perhaps a wizard specific root that didn't break would work better than a game wide mechanic change.
  11. Zalamyr Augur

    I respect nearly everything you post, but I am a little interested in your mini crusade against root rotting. I'll admit to not having played much lately, so my experiences are thin, but is root rotting some major problem? Do you just dislike it because of the inconsistency (other forms of damage break roots)? Honestly curious. Seems like such a minor thing to push to nerf.
    Duder likes this.
  12. Dobbs New Member

    I dabble in most of the classes mentioned but main as a shaman. Root/rot has been the shaman way for, well almost ever, especially after green pet pulling went away. It is slow and tedious but gets the job done. True we can typically root 2-3 mobs fairly safely and sit to regen mana, but you're not in resting state
    (canni-dance ftw).
    For snare classes, I've always kited when solo or even in grps. Pet charm seems to have become a mostly dead art as well for the outdoorsy animal types as well as enchanters. DD's are meant to break most roots. Seems that over the years even snare classes dot's will have a DD component. My combo dots have a chance to DD so I have to account for a back up punt/root.
  13. kizant Augur

    I've never been a fan of it because I don't think there should be a way to kill things with zero risk. I get that it's been around for a long time but how do you actually justify it being a good idea in the first place? I'm really curious because I've never seen a good answer.
  14. Dobbs New Member

    What's the risk of root/DD? Same as for root/rot. You're root breaks you die. You dump a few rounds of dots and run oom and you probably flee or die. Root gets resisted, you're going to have a bad time. Take druids for instance. They really aren't a R/R style, they can snare and punt, but their skill set often breaks root and they run reset and hopefully burn your mobs before they get you. I R/R everyday for my level appropriate mats and often things go sideways. If I go to lower zones, sure not much challenge or danger but if you're root rotting dark blues or higher, there is risk, hence the reward. Course you need to pick your spots and pray nothing summons :)
  15. Xenze Elder

    Risk vs Reward x Investment. (I’ll use experience gained)

    Root Rot: low risk, low reward. You’re relatively safe, but mobs die slow, so exp comes in slow. But it’s the slow and steady route.
    Root/Nuke: higher risk, higher experience return due to mobs dying off faster.

    Time is money, so you could technically max out levels twice as fast with the high risk route, thus doubling your investment as a return by acquiring your results in 3 months vs 6 months. Assuming things go smoothly and you don’t go splat. Taking the safer low risk route, you get the same results, but you need to invest twice the amount of time as the high risk.

    Retire in 10 years while investing aggressively with higher risks of going backwards or retire in 20 by investing a bit slower and safer. Same risk of losing it all, but not nearly at the rate as the aggressive approach.
    Duder and Dobbs like this.
  16. Dobbs New Member

  17. kizant Augur

    Except that's not how it ever worked. The wizard would kill 2 mobs really fast and med for 15 minutes doing nothing. The root/rotter would have 5 or 6 mobs all lined up slowly dying at the same time. Sure, they might take 10 to 20 minutes to kill them all but more are dying per minute. It was far more efficient.
  18. Xenze Elder

    My entire argument has been based off of live servers. Where you’re not having to wait 10-15 minutes to regain mana.

    And I don’t have much memory before the OOc Regen feature, but would your root rotter not use the same amount of mana on the same amount of mobs due to higher casts (4-5 DoTs vs 2-3 nukes), especially since you still couldn’t med while in combat(while DoTs are ticking)
  19. Zalamyr Augur

    Roots can still break early regardless of damage, so it's not exactly zero risk. Are you against kiting then as well? They have essentially the same risk profile (IE: you should never die unless you fall asleep).

    Given that nowadays with summoning/movement immune mobs it's relevant only as an exp tactic, so I'm not certain justifying it is particularly important. I see your point, but of the long list of things that have existed that aren't a good idea, I guess I see root rotting as pretty low impact.
    Duder likes this.
  20. kizant Augur

    The difference with kiting is that you need room to do it. Ideally, it wouldn't be practical to attempt in most zones. And instead of breaking it would have a short duration and the movement rate shouldn't be reduced tooo much. Maybe only 30% or something.Then make sure the snare spells have a long cast time and ideally can't simple overwrite. Think of it like charm where you have to wait till it breaks to reapply.