Why did you bother buffing Necros?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Dwimmerlaike, May 19, 2021.

  1. Tucoh Augur

    What group composition are you using and how well developed is it?

    Problem with stacking dot classes is the higher your dps gets the less powerful your dots get. Inverse to berserkers and other melee that benefit from intermittent fights where their cooldowns refresh.
  2. Chaosflux Augur

    Thats not true at all Tucoh, the problem with a necro/DOT class stacked group is usually the weak point is the tank, which throttles their dps significantly. The dots don't get less powerful, the tank just can't handle enough to capitalize on the power available to the group.

    In order to maximize a group like that the extended target really needs to stay full or close to it.

    Doing it any other way is a net loss. Thats much less of a concern with melee, and most boxers don't have the tank/healing combo to pull that off.

    One of my guildies has a melee stacked box team, I've got a mage/nec focused team, if we compare combines from lesson burns or grinding my team generally puts out significantly more dps overall less on a single target tho, but he only pulls 2 or 3 at a crack, and I try to keep enough to justify beam/cycle dotting on xtar, like his group kills individual mobs faster, I kill more mobs even tho TTK is higher on an individual mob basis, but I am doing dps on 10/12 at once and he's only doing dps on 1 or 2 at once. If I did it the way he does it and only pulled 2 or 3 yeh my dps would be kind of meh. You have to adapt tactically to the classes in the group. The zerk teams dps doesn't bloat nearly as much with extra pulls outside of furious ramp, so there's not nearly and incentive there for him as there is for me to pull extras. The difference is my overall dps pretty much normalizes around what his is when he burns.

    If you design the team with that knowledge in mind going in, it gets alot easier to get good results out of a dot focused team.
  3. Tucoh Augur

    Interesting, could you post a vid if your box team killing groups of mobs in difficult content?
  4. Chaosflux Augur

    Yeh I suppose I can, I am on a truebox server (in ROS), but my mages computer can probably do a stream or whatever its not a complete potato like my other ones.
  5. Tucoh Augur

    Cool, yeah a vid showing how you cut through mobs in Sathir's Tomb (or whatever) would be really interesting.
  6. Loratex The Ridiculous Necro

    This sounds like a trap
    Zynt and Niskin like this.
  7. aozs Elder


    Right, the metric of interest for a DoT team is DPCT (damage per cast time). Peak efficiency is loading the highest DPCT spells (wounds, etc), casting just enough of them to kill a mob, then moving onto the next mob.

    Since the highest DPCT spells have long durations, that naturally leads to fighting a TON of mobs at a time in order for them to all be doing work, pointing to tank survivability as the major limiting factor.

    My team is pal/brd/clr/nec/nec/nec, they are relatively fresh 110s with somewhat scuffed gear (snowbound, mix of gmm and tbm accessories) and have a lot of AA still yet to gain. I just finished TBL progression for the djinn mask. The box setup has quite a bit of work to do still, since it's significantly more involved than a melee team setup.

    I raised a melee team a few months back (pal/brd/shm/mnk/rng/bst) that went through the same progression with the same gear state. Looking at some DPS comparisons between the teams, I think the DoT team starts matching the melee team around 3-4 mobs with a big pyre-focused DoT loadout (huge mana cost), but that's also about the limit of what my tank can handle comfortably without using a significant cooldown. Also, mob hp is so low compared to 115 that a big pyre + curse from the 3 necros is generally enough.

    In terms of raw performance and just getting through the content, my fresh melee team had a far easier time. I'd like to take the necro team to 115 and develop it better to see how it does, but I have a feeling with group gear the tank will have a hard time consistently handling enough mobs to match or exceed a melee team.
  8. Chaosflux Augur

    Fair Point

    Swap one of your necros for an enchanter and it becomes alot more doable in group gear if you are going for a optimized set up, you will end up having a much higher throughput even though on paper theoretical dps takes alittle hit, because survivability goes up massively. Doubles your non disced pull size, which increases the amount of time you are casting the most effective spells and decreases time spent casting less effective spells. Paladin can also swap to 2hander for a larger portion of the pull, instead of having to wait until you are down to 2 or 3. Depending on how much micromanagement you want to put into optimization.

    Terror proc on Paladin/perilous/color shift alone makes it far easier, let alone all the other dps/adps abilities in their toolkit. Keep the bard around so the paladin/2 necros don't oom burning their highly mana inefficient setups.