Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Dwimmerlaike, May 19, 2021.
Sounds like tanks and zerkers need to be brought down.
You have a melee group so, .... yes you should replace the necro with a zerker.
I suspect the necros would do better if you had a group that was geared toward casters.
Maybe Sk, druid, enchanter, necro , nerco, necro. Then pull 3-4 and kite them on your SK while the others load up your trains with dots.
But what's your average when you include all your DPS? I assume you're always using your burns and not sitting on them?
This is true, overall DPS is better than that, for all the classes listed. I'd have to average a parse over the course of a few hundred mobs to get a better feel, but the numbers I listed were the lazy way to represent the parses I'm seeing on most fights. My intuition is telling me that rotating constant burns is benefitting the melee even more than the necro on trash mobs given the short durations of the fights.
I think earlier commenters were on point when saying I have a group with better melee ADPS support. Perhaps adding an enchanter and a druid would boost the necro's DPS, but I still don't think it would pay off versus the melee group. Melee just seems to be king atm.
The necro and zerkers are receiving comparable adps. The only thing a druid brings to a necro is their cold DD aura. The zerkers are missing a lot of adps from beastlords. The bard substantially helps a necro with just Aria.
The real argument is if boxed groups are a good comparison of what a class can do. I do not think they are, especially for a necromancer.
Fantastic points, both of them.
Not bad at all for a necro on typical trash mobs. It takes time for Necro dps to ramp up and typical trash just doesn't have the HP for that, especially not in a group like what you have there. As far as switching out your Necro that comes down to if you are happy with how fast trash kills are going, I can't imagine killing trash a few seconds faster would be worth the loss of the Necro. There is more to the game than straight dps.
Maybe if you had a better SK the necro could be dotting up 4-5 mobs instead of just one at a time.
Replies like this make me glad I never seek out groups.
Listen, you're doing 1.77M DPS with the numbers you quoted. If you're killing mobs with 50M HP, they're dying in under 30 seconds (28.24s). Say you replace the necro with someone doing 30% more DPS. You're now doing another 87k DPS, or 1.857M DPS total. That same mob now dies in 26.92 seconds. A WHOLE ENTIRE 1.32 seconds faster. LOL.
You could also say that 30 seconds (if that is around the average kill time) doesn't really give a dotting class time to show what they can do.
I outdps literally everyone I group with on my Necro, if stuff dies too fast, I pull my own mobs and pet tank them or kite a dozen on my own.
Been one of or THE most powerful in the game
For my entire EQ Career
Of these Threads
And yet, you're only taking 1.3 seconds longer to kill the mob with the necro in group, so does it really matter?
I never said it mattered either way. I was just using your correct logic to point out that a dps class that relies on damage that increases over time isn't going to look as good as others in a group that kills fast.
alright but why is the shm slacking so hard ....
shamans are bad, need boosts /nod
Hmmm, it feels like there's one class that's higher than it should be here, I can't place it...
But seriously, a DoT class shouldn't be competitive in a full group of heavy hitters, much less a melee focused group.
Indeed, if there is a real outlier here its the one class is doing that well, but heck they've been so strong for so long it's not exactly a surprise either.
I'm going to disagree here.
I think that a DoT class focusing on dps should be "competitive" with melee dps classes in groups, they are doing fine right now but in the case of Necromancer that class is still "in a state of flux" the revamp of its spells is not quite finished yet and a final balance pass is not yet done so I am personally not going to worry they are doing vastly more dps than they should be right now, let them enjoy their time being overpowered, it probably won't last.
There isn't much reason to think there will be additional changes at this point.
Necro's can FD, self heal, rez, snare, gate, pet, heal pet..
If the mob is undead, they can paci, slow, mez, charm..
Zerkers can... zerk?
Zerkers should out DPS necros in burst situations. On a mob that lives 30 seconds, necros should DPS behind rogues, zerkers, mages, wizards, monks, BST, rangers... they should be on par with bards and SHM, just past druids and enchanters, on 30 second fights.
On long fights, like raid mobs, Necros should out DPS everyone on the boss, but not on the little guys around the boss that die faster. Wizards, rogues and zerkers should be highest on that one, with wizards always at the DPS advantage due to no need to position.
That is the balance. It's pretty close right now. The linked numbers of Zerk at 400k and Necro at 300k on 30 second fights ssounds right.
Separate names with a comma.