Why are the new heroics level 100 and not higher?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by MarttinPH, Aug 9, 2022.

  1. Whulfgar Augur

    Why are the new heroics level 100 and not higher?

    Simple answer, they wont be raising the level cap of pc's any time soon. And when they do its still will be in the 30 lvl range limit.
  2. Cadira Augur

    There's a lot of embarrassing strawman arguments using the "I had to walk up a hill with no shoes in the snow and rain and so should you" philosophy.

    Being 115 with last year's group gear still requires you to put an immense amount of time and effort to get 120, get newest progression, get the new best gear, get the new aas, get hero aas if they help your class a lot, get old clickies, get a full set of new type 5 augs, and learn to play the class you went with.

    It would merely make you eligible to actually help contribute in a meaningful way to get the things you need to be an endgame player. Instead of begging people who have no reason to help someone get caught up from 100.

    I'm sure the sales in heroics would go out the roof if people had the incentive of making their alt up to par more easily with a 115 as opposed to 100. I know I'd be more willing to buy a heroic if I felt I'd actually get it where it needs to be with less work.
    MacDubh, Zunnoab, Fenthen and 3 others like this.
  3. Alnitak Augur

    Exactly, stop embarassing yourself.

    Going from 100 to 115 takes 1 weekend when helped by your friends. Or 2 weekends if you just buy the help.
    But better yet - once you make level 100 Heroic character start doing level 100 progression. The Darkened Sea is totally doable at 100, is very rewarding for 100 and quite entertaining. Learn how to play at 100 before you embarass yourself at 115+.
    And if you are just making Heroic alt - put it through ToV in 1 weekend, level 113 guaranteed.

    Don't beg, just ask your friends and you shall receive.
    And if you got no friends in the game - just buy the help with Kronos/pps. Lotsa people are willing to help when well compensated materially.

    And I am sure the sales of Kronos to pay for gear/PL to go from 100 to 115 would take a nosedive and sales of newer Heroics won't even come close to compensate for those revenue losses.
    That's a bad business idea.
  4. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Do we want EQ to be a game where new people are expected to buy plat?
    I don't think gatekeeping like that helps the game in the long term...
    Stymie and Fenthen like this.
  5. Alnitak Augur

    Hmm, let's see: a new player, with no friends, not able to make new friends, doesn't know how to play, doesn't want to learn how to play and how to earn resources in game, complains about not being high enough level to be welcomed by others into high-end game, and doesn't want to pay to get all that and only insists on getting all the rewards for a bare minimum of buying a Heroic character?

    Well, gatekeeping it is, with electric fence and barb wire on top.
  6. Windance Augur

    What route do you use to get from 100 to 115?

    How many hours are you spending in game over that "1 weekend" ? "

    What support team are you using?

    I would rather see the $$ go directly to Daybreak rather than the guys running the 24/7 PL shops.
    Zunnoab and Fenthen like this.
  7. Zarzac Augur

    It seems my comments may either be cutting into your income stream or your self worth as determined by your ability to level up an everquest character. Ether way, I'm a bit sad for you now.
    Stymie, Velisaris_MS and Cadira like this.
  8. Alnitak Augur

    8 to 12 hours of gameplay by boxing 1 mage + 1 bard + 1 merc (levels 120) to PL 3 level 100 gearless druids in tow. All Mercenary and Partisan achievements in EW, GD, ToFS, VL, Ry'Gorr mines and KD. 4 Hero missions done by a different team and druids were task-added (no playtime involved).
    Some tasks are dependant on random spawns, so the time varies. May need extra time to spawn dervishes, Frost and Grand Armsmith.
    If you do missions by your own toons, it takes under 2 hours for all 4, including logistics.
    10 to 14 hours of playtime - just 1 weekend. May take longer calendar time if you play less hours per day.
    From 100 to 113 in ToV alone with no bonus experience. If you timely schedule it for a bonus weekend - it's lvl 115 for the same effort.
    Also, at lvl 113 you can get ToL Mercenary and Partisan tasks in T1 as well as CoV missions. Mix and match. With experience bonus you can easily do 115 in 1 weekend.

    I would rather see the $$ go directly to Daybreak via purchases of Kronos to pay for PL rather than no $$ going to Daybreak from buying Heroics via monthly 500 DBC awards.
    Here we disagree.
  9. Alnitak Augur

    Condescending much?
    You've missed on both counts: I never ever sold any PL services in EQ and have absolutely no revenue of any kind from me playing EQ, in fact I keep paying DPG via my CC for years. And my or anybodys ability to level up an everquest character has no bearing on my self worth. I am perplexed anybody would even consider that.

    And you are not a bit sad for me. You are just a sad individual. It happens. Not everybody is as happy as I am. It's a talent I have and you do not.
  10. Cadira Augur

    So your solution to avoid creating a "participation trophy" situation (how is a lvl 100 heroic any different?) Is to have someone pay a large sum of real money to a cheater to get them up to par barring they don't have friends? And to add to the irony, they literally already spent money to buy the heroic in the first place?

    Are you actually serious?
  11. Alnitak Augur

    That is not what I wrote. Please, do not attribute your words to me.
    My solution to avoid creating a "participation trophy" situation is not to create such situations. Level 100 Heroic is not a trophy, it's a convenient jump-start for those, who want to skip 2 weeks of PL'ing baby alts or who wants to experience a gameplay from a much less-than top level but still in enjoyable modern setting. Level 115 Heroic is neither. It's ready-play in current era character. It is a "participation trophy". It should not be given. It should be earned by actual gameplay or paying significant (to DPG revenue stream) amount of money. Bought or earned is fine. Granted - is not.
    And with 500 DBC monthly awards 2 Heroics can be bought annually on average.
    I am strongly against significant increase in price of a Heroic character token (for other reasons than already mentioned), so price of several Kronos to PL masters seems to be serving the purpose to ward "participation trophies" from being devalued.
    Kronos are bought from DPG, and it's a reasonable freedom of choice - those who want instant gratification can pay $$ to pay for PL with Kronos, and others can buy relatively cheap Heroic character 2 times per year per account and just self PL it to 115 in a week or two.
    Also, as a side bonus, ToV will be really busy expansion for 100+ leveling for both true new players, who just bought Heroics and all variety of twinked alts.

    And just last week I actually heared from level 120 mage in my group "Oh, mages can heal their pets?" . Really. Talk about instant gratification.
  12. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    While I have no particular argument against a 110, 115, or even a 120 Heroic, I do think level 100 is a good starting point.

    What I think would have been a great compromise is to allow the purchaser to choose their level. Perhaps retain the progression that a level 100 would have garnered at 105, 110, 115, or 120 and the only additional items the higher level buys you are: AA, Spells/Discs, and level-appropriate gear. Charge a premium for the higher level toons. Pricing could look like this:

    • Level 100 HC @ 3500DBC
    • Level 105 HC @ 4000DBC
    • Level 110 HC @ 4500DBC
    • Level 115 HC @ 5000DBC (includes SOL expansion)
    • Level 120 HC @ 7500DBC (includes a Unique Mount and the latest expansion)
  13. Keenween Elder

    I think the same. I dont need a level 110/115 "newb.." in my group and we are here NOT in WoW or Swtor.

    Level 85 Hero was fine and with level 100 now a great start level (most class get his special AA in this level, War with sheol, Sk with reaver, Pala undead Nuke etc.), i dont need more!
  14. Vumad Cape Wearer

    If they just added 1 all/all T2 group item for every slot in every expansion (or every level increase expansion) during the development of the expansion, then they could just give heroic toons a default armor set easy. There's really no reason not to have a new heroic available every level increase expansion.

    ROS is coming! It's a great time to come back because you can catch up faster with the new L100 heroic! (uses ROF all/all)
    ToV is coming! It's a great time to come back because you can catch up faster with the new L105 Heroic! (uses TDS all/all)
    ToL is coming! It's a great time to come back because you can catch up faster with the new L110 Heroic! (uses ROS all/all)

    Give a set of Type 5s that have even stats in all hStats and make a generic Type 7/8 aug for heroics.

    I don't really understand why heroics seem like such a big deal to upgrade or implement. Even an armor set of Dark Sea Heroes BP that is all/all seems very simple to have. Should be tons of heroic options. They could even unlock a bunch of these on all of the TLP servers. Should be going back and making a bunch of heroics and as a server reaches a point just unlock the heroic and sell them.
  15. Fenthen aka Rath

    Heroic Characters should always be tuned to the current FTP set -- which is level 115 / ToV gear/aug/spells, and FFS give these poor "heroic" characters their epics as well. How un-heroic is it to not be viable because you are missing important class-defining items and abilities from 20 years ago?
    Stymie and Vumad like this.
  16. Windance Augur

    If they have 500 DBC awards then they are at least gold and paying to play.

    The PL teams on the other hand are 100% leaches. The team on my server all appear to be F2P level 115 accounts grinding mobs in Sithir Tomb 24/7. This particular PL service seems to be operating 15-20 characters on at least 4 servers. This is contributing to server load and inflating the prices of Krono.

    They may make more $$$ for daybreak, but I can't believe you would rather have people paying into them.
  17. Riou EQResource

    Imagine most people buying Heroics probably aren't new to the game since a new high pop TLP is a vastly superior experience for someone new vs anything in the Live game

    But maybe they are being marketed towards this and the content beyond 100 is kind of bad and is not really New Player friendly at all so Level 100 is around the last time they had actual content in Expansions with potentially a ton to do or be slightly over level to also do with Mercs and stuff
    Sancus likes this.
  18. Tucoh Augur

    I'm contemplating getting a heroic character when they bump them. Because I have so many high levels on 7 accounts It's trivial for me to grow new characters from level 1, 85, 100, whatever. They should've made it level 115 which is basically the exit point of the leveling desert that a new/returning EQ player would be at. Getting to level 115 without someone to carry you or a box group is miserable.

    There's two ways to change that:
    1. Squiring, where a lowbie can group with a highlevel character and get their stats boosted such that they aren't a complete liability, even if they aren't a huge asset.
    2. Rotating daily hotzones with 2x XP/loot/spawnrate (among other benefits) for each expansion, so that players are highly motivated to funnel into a given hotzone. This will still be terrible for levels 1 to 100 that are complete deserts (and about to get worse with the heroics), but would dramatically improve level 100+
    Fenthen likes this.
  19. Alnitak Augur

    They have to be gold. It's a given. Nobody would invite a stranger silver character into a "current expansion" content. Simply not good enough. Only close friends and guildies may that. And if you have friends like that - no problems getting levels.

    It hasn't affected me so far. I rarely see those bot crews and they hardly cause lag for me. In fact - they prefer obscure locations on Bristlebane server.
    And prices of Krono can not be just "inflated". It's all about how much pp people are willing to pay for a Krono. Complaining about people having more pp and willing to spend it on Kronos is pointless in my opinion. People are reacher - prices are going up. No farm crew affected my own decision how much I am willing to pay for a Krono. It's between me and my bank. More money around means I earn more and can spend on Kronos more. Bot crews are not a factor.

    Not people in general. Just those entitled instant-gratification addics who must get to a max level as soon as possible. If they spend real $$ to buy Krono to pay to bot PL crew - better for DPG, better for me and you. Nobody forces anybody to pay illegal automated bot crews. And if they pay me or you to PL them, then there is no increase in a server load or price of Krono - because we play anyway, and now we don't even have to buy those Kronos for everincreasing prices. More Kronos bought from DPG = more Kronos in circulation = lowering Krono price pressure on a market.

    What you are against, it seems, is against automated, and let me capitalize it, ILLEGAL bot crews. Nobody is actually for those. But PL'ing somebody for a fee - not a detrimental service in itself. I'd do that if anybody pays me enough. That's what selling TA's is. Nobody is complaining.
  20. Tual Augur

    If you think EQ takes a lot of effort and work I would really hate to be your employer. Heroics aren't there to get you into end game content with the click of a button, it's there to help smooth the levelling curve and get you in the pool to get groups.