Why are the new heroics level 100 and not higher?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by MarttinPH, Aug 9, 2022.

  1. MarttinPH Augur

    I must admit my highest characters that I played actively and did appropriate content were 90 or 95. A level 100 character is still going to have to do a tremendous amount of work to be able to do the new expansion. Why not make the new heroic characters such they are level appropriate and geared for the new expansion. Other games with similar catch up mechanics have done this.
    Hobitses and Fenthen like this.
  2. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    I wasn't in the Dev meeting where this was decided. I don't get invited to those.

    My guess is that they still want people to experience the last few expansions while still being able to group with max level players, and not needing to make any changes to the max level spread.
    Hobitses, Wdor, minimind and 3 others like this.
  3. Alnitak Augur

    5 days of casual play pushes your Heroic alt from 100 to 113. Who needs groups in that range?
    Oh, you mean a real newcomer (noob or returnee) just buys a Heroic toon and wants to enjoy "new expansions" ? Not in EQ. Gotta learn how to play your toon first. Nobody needs total noobs in "new expansions".
    You got old friends you wanna enjoy playing with? They can PL you in a week to a level you can actually contribute.
    You got no friends and last played 12 years ago? Well, level up yourself from lvl 100, perhaps you'll be able to contribute after that.

    I never played with anyone in EQ who really enjoyed to play with max level character in a group, which has no idea how to play their class. True, even experienced players at times make alts of new class, the one they've never played before. In difference from noobs their learning curve is very very short and PL'ing from 100 to current max is not a problem.

    Also, new players will bring more revenue to DPG (buying and selling Kronos and potions) if they want to just instantly gratify themselves from lvl 100 to max level. Good for business, DPG with more money makes the game better for us.
    cadres likes this.
  4. Svann2 The Magnificent

    100 was chosen because they can still get xp with a 120.
    Is that your final answer?
    final answer
  5. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Should’ve been 110 minimum probably better to aim for 113-115. Here’s why 110+ makes sense:

    1) ToV is FTP
    2) ToV is modern quest oriented leveling
    3) ToV leveling needs groups, more opportunities for groups with heroics spawning in
    4) Easy expansion missions are basic and good learning opportunities for your class
    5) Temptation to buy ToL and able to contribute some to groups
    Fenthen, Velisaris_MS, Zarzac and 2 others like this.
  6. Zunnoab Augur

    Looks like I quoted myself by mistake rather than editing. NM this double post.
  7. Zunnoab Augur

    I think it's a valid question, however a better thing to point out is how they basically need guides or people will be totally lost. Maybe I underestimate people, but EverQuest is ridiculously complex. UI design is almost part of playing the game, needing to arrange windows and hotkeys, and unless I'm mistaken the default is extremely basic and doesn't really convey what's going on.

    I have a "baby" warrior alt, heroic then (very kindly and without my asking) power-leveled playing with a guildmate to 110+ now. I spent hours yesterday reading up on our guild message boards about the class and only got through defensive information and aggro, and I'll pick up on absorbing the DPS disc information and tips to implement my own hotbars and hotkeys later.

    Even with information at my fingertips, it's still a lot to take in (and I very well may stink at playing at first, I'm not sure yet). I can't even imagine being a player coming back or even a new player.

    That said, heroic to 100 is better than nothing, and I do see chatter in general from people lower in level and there is a trickle of people coming back to game.

    I don't know if any would agree with me but you know the (great in my opinion) standard of increasing mission and raid rewards over time after an expansion release? How about boosting the huge task and mission experience from level-tier expansions like Torment of Velious and later Terror of Luclin? That would encourage both doing the older content while making it very rewarding and making starting 20 levels behind not as big of a hurdle.

    I know the grind if you don't do the progression is controversial, but I love that doing the tasks and missions is rewarded heavily for first completion.

    Retroactive huge bonus exp completing content lower in level would be nice too to encourage people to do through it as well as an alternative, in my opinion. It probably should have been 110 indeed, but that's not the only "solution."
    Duder and Stymie like this.
  8. Windance Augur

    I hope they keep bumping the heroic characters each time there is a level increase.
  9. Tappin Augur

    Because they don't want your money.
    Fenthen likes this.
  10. Maedhros High King

    I mean, would you prefer it was still 85? geez.
  11. Timmyboi Dunning Kruger Award Winner

    Level 85 was introduced to the game 14 years ago.

    Level 85 heroics were introduced 8 years ago when the cap was 100, a 15 level difference putting you 6 years behind current content.

    Level 100 was introduced to the game 10 years ago.

    If they release level 100 heroic characters this year, you will be 10 years behind at a 20 level difference.

    This round of heroics leaves you further behind and with more work to do to catch up. And that’s not even touching on the fact that the game has hemorrhaged players since then, so newer players that opt heroics will have even less people to help them get to max.
    Stymie, Fenthen and Zarzac like this.
  12. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    It's a design choice.

    Level 100 was never going to please everyone. Nor would 105, 110, 115, or 120.
  13. Koutarou_E'ci Elder

    Not only this, it is future-proofed for another 5 years and a few months if level-cap increase every 2 years holds.
  14. Piemastaj Augur

    Would be nice if they just removed the level spread so you could group an 85 with a 120...

    In a game this old, forcing people to play in low-end content due to a silly level requirement not being met within the group is such a bad model. Also, hinders returning players coming back by not being able to group with their friends.
  15. Iven Antonius Bayle

    1. Because 100 is a very round number which is better for marketing.
    2. There is much more and easier content available than at lvl 110 and higher.
  16. Zarzac Augur

    Fact is, plenty of people have been playing their toon for 20 years and still do a very poor job.

    There is no magic ingestion of knowledge that happens somewhere at lower levels that makes you any better. Generally, people find one thing that works and just repeat that 10,000 times until they get to the level they want.

    It was a terrible call to make these 100.

    • You miss out on creating a group of players that NEED to group up to go through the progression missions to level up with more current content.
    • The characters should have started at 110 or 115 with a full set of the previous expansions group gear, augs and their epic.
    • Running through the missions of last expansion or two expansion old content actually does force you to learn your class. A group in group gear will struggle getting through all the missions. That is point, AND THE FUN. To do this they must have enough gear/aa to make it possible.
    • If you "force" a pool of players to be available and looking to do these missions then you actually get people to group and play as intended. At 100 you just spread people out again too much and force solo play. None of these people will ever become long term subscribers. Isn't getting and keeping new subscribers the real business goal here?
    • Making HCs 110 or 115 reduces the "value" of 120 toons - this takes a bite out of those that use programs to make and sell characters. I'd much rather daybreak sell the toons and keep the profits to expand the game.
    Stymie, Fenthen, Denyu and 3 others like this.
  17. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Just want to reiterate it’s very disappointing they went with level 100. This is one of the few times the accountants/money people need to step in and override a decision. How does a Level 100 Heroic help sell ToL1 or in a few months ToL2?

    Make some dang money, and sell more expansions to people energized enough to buy a heroic.
    Fenthen likes this.
  18. Windance Augur

    I'd would have liked to see the HC's boosting people to around the level of the free to play cap with a full set of non prestige for that level.

    I hope they don't just keep it at 100 and ignore changing it again till live is at 135.
    Fenthen likes this.
  19. Windance Augur

    I like this reason as well.
  20. Alnitak Augur

    Nobody misses out anything. If people want to group - they group. If they don't want to group - they don't. And alot of progression are not group missions.

    No, they should not. Participation trophies greatly devalue earned rewards and discourage actual winners. If you want gear, augs, epics, levels - go earn them, not whine and demand those to be granted to snowflakes.
    Exactly, so they should be motivated to earn enough gear/aa to get through missions, not just be given the freebies.
    The people who do not wish to actually earn character improvements by playing and getting better and instead demand that to be given upon signing up never become long term subscribers. Seen it many times - they come, they buy their way to the top level/gear and then they depart to some other place. They are actually short-term subscribers. It's a good business idea to lure them in with an opportunity to buy the bragging rights (buy Kronos - sell or trade those for power-leveling, uber gear, TaskAdds etc.) . This way DPG earns maximum revenue from those temporal snowflakes. It's a good business decision.

    Have you checked the PL pricing on live servers ? DPG would make more money selling Kronos to pay for PL than by selling Heroic toons. It's business, not personal.

    Anyway, at current rate level 135 (which disqualifies level 100 Heroics from joining a group) will be introduced in 2027, by that time higher level Heroics would be a thing.