Why 24 hour downtime in July '21?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Metanis, Jun 22, 2021.

  1. Riou EQResource


    Everyone on selo already has a free xfer off to any server they want, they've had it for like 3 months or something now
    Gyurika Godofwar and Leerah like this.
  2. Hekaton Augur

    Niente

    A few weeks ago you were being super chill in the guild lobby and casting random illusions. I lamented about the fact there was no lasagna based illusions. Any traction in moving this up the ladder?
    klanderso and Nennius like this.
  3. Nennius Curmudgeon

    Perhaps a new title for the Devs., "Code Archaeologist".
    Leerah and Coagagin like this.
  4. Tatanka Augur

    Thanks for all the details. It's fun to learn some of the history behind-the-scenes for a game many of us have played for 20+ years :)
  5. Tatanka Augur

    How about:

    Fennow
    Fenlater
    Fenwheneveridamnwellfeellikeit

    ;)
  6. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Serious question for old devs: Were databases in 1997-ish actually a valid choice for a game like everquest back then? Were they fast/stable enough for a realtime game? Did they handle concurrency well enough to handle that many players?

    What we expect from a modern database-system now, may not have been possible back then. Maybe they chose flat files for character-storage for a very good reason?

    There must have been some system requirements for everquest, that a database back then couldn't handle? Im curious what it was? :)
  7. Tatanka Augur

    I think the most likely answers are:

    - Of course they were available.

    - There's a cost associated with utilizing that tech, and when EQ was being developed, they either didn't realize how many people would sub, or the tech was too expensive without the guarantee of enough players (or, more likely, both those reasons).

    Once things took off, there was likely little time to switch over to a decent DB, because they were opening servers fairly regularly, and doing all sorts of other customer service chores (actual GMs and guides!), and don't forget, they were developing 2 expacs a year back then.
    Leerah and Jumbur like this.
  8. kizant Augur

    The first few half decent open source SQL databases were still being developed at the same time as EQ and it would be a number of years before any of those would be worth using. The commercial alternatives were/are extremely expensive. Besides, they had far worse hardware back then and needed to be more focused on performance. An SQL database really wouldn't have made much sense and even today it's still a questionable decision but it sounds like their use is fairly limited.
    Leerah, code-zero, Jumbur and 3 others like this.
  9. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    So databases were "technically" feasible for everquest(but maybe a bit slow), but WAAY over budget for a computer game.

    I guess only very large corporations could afford high performance database systems back then? We are talking super-computer price-ranges or something like that?

    I am guessing flat-files could be optimized enough, and that the extra flexibility offered by a real SQL database was overkill for a game like everquest in its original state?

    I imagine an SQL engine was a big performance overhead back then.
  10. Gnomereaper Augur

    1. Has there been any resolution to the AA limit per character for coding?

    2. Are there any plans to streamline and modernize development tools to make content creation easier and thus see a return to larger expansions in the future?

    Thank you for your hard work.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  11. Atomos Augur

    Name 1 B McQ game that was programmed properly from the start.
  12. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    It might just be my Rose Colored Glasses of Nostalgia, But I thought Everquest 1 was ok from the start(well, I didn't play at "start", so my experience is from velious era).
    You can't really judge the original coding on how well it handles 22 years of bloat and feature-creep. That is more a problem of poor long term planning and maintenance afterwards, rather than initial codebase quality.

    Note: I don't have access to the source-code, so it is more of an "end-user" impression.

    Considering, that it was probably the most technologically complex game in the world back then, I see no reason doubt the skill-level of the original dev-team. :)
    Waring_McMarrin likes this.
  13. zleski Elder


    If you knew how recently certain fintech companies (that manage trillions of dollars in assets/trades) adopted DNS you would cry and move your money under your mattress.
    Leerah likes this.
  14. Corydon Augur


    tldr:
    waaaaahhh... waaaaah... cryyyyyy... servers coming down... but i wanna playyyy... waaaahh.. waaaah... cryyyy....
  15. The real Sandaormo Augur

    With a Months warning of this downtime, hopefully we can avoid the "I haven't had a day off to play in 10 years and you bring the servers down?" posts.
  16. Leerah Augur

    All the more reason to do everything that needs to be done. Take two days if you need to to get it into a position that will last five years.

    Do you need us to tell you the ideal server population? (Slightly fewer than FV.) I'm sure the AB victims would be grateful for some people to play with. What makes EQ better than all the other games is SOCIAL STRUCTURE! Don't lose sight of that!

    What about fixing account to account transfers while you're running the SQL?

    Lee of Povar, formerly Quellious
    Leader of Unholy Czars, 2800+ on our rolls
    Thundersnake likes this.
  17. Leerah Augur

    I imagine they are paying minimum wage to a recent graduate. How much would it cost to hire someone with your knowledge?

  18. Gherig Addicted since Aug 1st, 1998

    What Database system are you using on the new version of Everquest you guys are working on right now?
  19. Accipiter Old Timer


    Rift. It was a poor substitute but what are you going to do?
    Celephane likes this.
  20. Benito EQ Player since 2001.

    Thank you for sharing your insight Niente!

    To the people making direct requests or arguments, that is why we can’t have nice things (explanations from devs).