I have not kept up with this thread or read any of the others posts. I will say the missions in group gear were definitely difficult. I did EW 1 at 98 I believe in no raid gear, both SL at 96, EW 2 100, all tier 2 100 (and starting to have raid gear then). Even in full raid gear the missions are difficult without proper group make up. That is the key. All the missions are pretty easy once you understand the mechanics and have the correct 6 players in group. Now you can swap a warrior for SK or Pally etc.. so all classes work.. I hate to admit but the knights destroy warriors when it comes to group missions, although I did hold my own just fine, (and a lot of key presses + work) and tanked all of them without another tank class except grelleth 2. Some classes on some missions are severely hurting because they cannot do much.. (as far as I know, and have seen, maybe I haven't seen any great players of (lets not mentions classes here, in x mission). Anyways, I believe all missions are beatable in group tier 2 equivalent gear or t1+ raid gear. As long as you have proper make up and people that don't suck. EDIT: I would like to add the fact that the missions are difficullt in group gear is what makes me enjoy running them over and over! If they were easy we would all complain how easy they are.. I would much rather have them hard than easy!
The first time we did this, as a cleric I was the one actually handling the rooting believe it or not (as part of 3 folks only in zone and using mercs the rest = aka found out that was actually bad news lol). Separately, I've seen the enchanter deal with him as well. Ranger as well, offtanking as well, so there are many different avenues I've seen myself, much less.
That's is the issue the missions being hard is one thing, but requiring certain classes is another. Its simple all of these missions should be beatable with 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 CC/puller, 2 DPS. Mix and match the roles but you shouldn't need certain classes.
i have had laughs, this thread makes me laugh much. as a note, i have done all the misssions successfully with various groups, of various classes / levels / and next to no raiders if any. for no mission do you need some PERFECT GROUP, you need players that can play their classes, hopefully have some AA and decent (group) gear. group missions SHOULD be hard. that being said, grelleth 2 is time consuming yes, but its not exactly hard once you learn the mechanics behind it. eastern wastes 2 is the hardest mission for me and my friends by a lot.. that mission could be tuned down a little bit (it is T1...). <sneak peak> if the changes they have on test goto live your going to have even more fun dying in ew2, i still havent beat mission since it got revamped!
So many raiders who post that they think these group missions are challenging. That should hammer home the point of this thread.
I'm sorry, but is that supposed to mean something? I have seen plenty of awful raiders, just like I have seen plenty of awful groupers. After running most of these missions multiple times, there is absolutely two things you must have to suceed. First, you must learn the entire event. Several of these missions do have raid type mechanics (shocking since they are based on the actual raids), and they are not the type of missions you just plow through while watching TV. Second, you must be able to play your class pretty well, and be able to get the most out of it. Higher AA and high-end group gear of course make this easier, but in no way, shape, or form do these require raid gear to complete. Now I have seen pleny of raiders and groupers that are incapable of doing one of these or both, and these type of people will not be able to beat these missions. I do not see anything wrong with that. That being said, I do think a couple of them could be toned down slightly, but overall I think they are pretty well done for content that is not even required to progress, and is mostly there for the challenge.
Quite agreed there are raiders who aren't worth their salt. However I think the point was that even competent/good players (who also have the advantage of raid equipment) have said these are too challenging for the intended audience.
Those competent/good raiders are certainly entitled to their opinion. I also know groups of stricly group-geared players who have beaten these missions as well. I just strongly disagree with the notion that the entire group game must be easy enough so that average Joe grouper can sleepwalk through the entire expansion. I don't see any issues with having some more difficult content in the group game, as long as it not a roadblock to progression. This is what we have now. None of these missions are a roadblock to progression. Not a single one of them is required for a pure grouping character. The only thing it locks average groups from getting is one single aug. At the same time, that aug is enough to give the higher-end group players something to work for.
I think what we are having here is a failure to communicate. Allow me to simply the issue at hand. Skilled players in raid gear, knowing their class, having raided, knowing event mechanics like they are second nature, with proper groups, are having difficulty in completing Missions supposedly tuned for Group Casuals. If said players are having difficulty in completing these missions, which pretty much appropriate for specific class set up.... What is there to say about group casuals with group gear and lower skill set attempting these missions ? Sure you will find the random group geared casual with these missions done, but as a whole, there are legions of the casual gamer avoiding these like the plague. This was not intended.
Not true. I am not saying they don't possibly need detuned a bit, but no, after learning mechanics, my regular group has absolutely no problems completing any of the missions. My 'normal' group to do progression with cosists of Pally, wiz, nec, cler, mag, shm/sk. We all raid though, but... there is absolutely no mission that we can't accomplish fairly easily, definitely would not classify any mission as 'having difficulty in completing'. Requiring casual groupers to learn quite a bit of raid type mechanics though, that's what is proving so difficult, IMO, and what the ones that are complaining about it really want to say, is they want much of the raid mechanics removed.
No one complained about how easy valley of luna 2, city of bronze 1, or sarith escort missions were... People dont complain over free loot / spells ever.
What was changed? EW 2 was never all that hard for my friend and I, I think we beat that one on our 2nd attempt, woulda been first but my bard accidentally pulled more mobs than I intended on our first run resulting in a sudden wipe in the early phases. For a tier 1 mission though its still overtuned, but I found evantil 2 to be a far more obnoxious mission.
Saying something is not true just because you and your group ( which seem to play together every night so you each know how the other responds and performs ) have completed missions is like saying space does not exist because I have not visited there. Yes, I would agree on this aspect. If people wanted to raid, they would set that aside in their IRL life and schedule to do that. Some people cannot for many reasons, to numerical to list here... Some people play casually and wish to experience everything an expansion has to offer, groups and raids, and then you have your strict raiders who log on, raid, log off. The one thing about all of this is, which has been firmly established, the majority of your player base, the casual player, is being forced to digest mechanics and events set for the raiding individual. I raid and I group. My average play time per week is 30 + hours. So I see both sides of this discussion. But one thing I know for sure, is a person who only wishes to play casually, should not have to digest a 30k hitting dragon in a "group" mission, that was obviously scaled toward players in raid gear, whom are a minority in this game. Every expansion you see things like this, and im not sure it will ever change. Slowly but surely the casuals are being forced to endure mechanics and emotes that you usually find in raid settings, on group missions and now, even named encounters. I think if the casual player base wished to play Red Light, Green Light..or Simon Says... they would have asked for it. They have not.
This is the biggest issue. Groupers want to see lore and see the story they paid the expansion price for. We enjoy the story, but many if not most of us care nothing at all for the Simon Says that much of EQ raiding has become.
Your warrior is in mostly raid gear. Your warrior unbuffed has more AC and HP than a group geared warrior has when fully buffed. There is NO correct 6 players that can do all the group missions in group gear and THAT, more than anything else, is the problem. You can have a balanced group, DPS heavy group, tank heavy group, CC heavy group, it doesn't matter. Your group will excel at some missions, barely squeek by on others, and fail miserably on some. Most of the raiders in this thread have an easy answer to deal with this. You simply point to your friend the rogue who has been with you for the last six years and say, "You are being replaced by an enchanter for this mission. Sucks to be you."
