Who gives the best adps boost to a zerker?

Discussion in 'Melee' started by Zaltan, Sep 28, 2020.

  1. Zaltan Journeyman


    Just wondering what is better to boost a zerker, bard or shmy?

    I'm interested in knowing from zerkers, what % does a bard or shmy boost the dps in the parses.
    minimind likes this.
  2. Cadira Augur

    Bard by a landslide.

    I've parsed shaman epic out to increase zerk dps with just cleaving/frenzied resolve by out 20%. Seen almost exact same results with other classes and shaman epic. Note: sham epic does not stack with savage spirit aa.

    Bard fierce eye has an spa 459 mod which is the end all be all damage increase and stacks with everything except the majority of disconcerting and mangling disc and monk synergy (better than disco, worse than mangling, equal to monk synergy) the crit damage increase from fe still stacks with mangling/disco. I've seen this increase all other discs and just auto attack dps by about 40%. Also has 73.3% uptime if hit on cool down.

    And then there's quick time, great hhe effect along with some huge attack increases (more noticable on raids) and increased chance to score another hit. 4 minutes out of every 10.

    And bard epic, parsed out to about an 8.5% dps stacked on top of our big burn on a parse I did awhile back. Not huge but one additional stackable thing.

    And bard songs for increase haste, attack, triple attack chance? And some procs.

    I guess shamans have dissident for small proc dps, ancestral aid (not particularly useful to a zerk who has a maxed crit rate but you might not be there yet) and spire (don't think spire stacks with shared atavism line and assume ours is better - very minor either way)..but bard wins by miles.
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  3. Zaltan Journeyman

    This is perfect thank you. Exactly what i wanted to see. Basically i have a mage and shmy on same account and i wanted to know how much of a loss of damage i would have if i dropped the shmy out for the mage unless i needed the extra heals. Sounds like the mage with the bard boost will be well over the adps the shmy can provide
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  4. Szilent Augur

    beastlord numbers tooo. pls more nummmmmbers
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  5. gnomeboss Augur

    cattastraphy going full iksar w/ the math! szilent is right though, we need those sweet fero/fury(s) bl numbers. my bl, superkitrix, pretty much ready to make his magelo debut w/ epic theme music. just fyi ~
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  6. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    Just a consideration...

    ...even if your zerker is your group's big dps engine, you still need to look at overall group effect. If you run a healer merc because you are no longer have a shaman, you need to calculate the shaman contribution with a dps/caster merc. And then go fight some named with big AEs to see if you can survive without a real healer.
  7. Zaltan Journeyman

    My main is a raid warrior so usually i dont need a healer apart from a single cleric merc. Shmy is there purely if i need some extra heals on a tricky named. I will still keep the shmy up to scratch but i will mostly be using a mage instead for farming content since it doesnt seem like the shmy boost is going to make a huge difference compared to having the mage in the team instead as the bard will be boosting that as well. The team is looking like it will be Warrior > Bard > Zerk > Mage or shmy depending.
  8. Filter Augur

    As I mentioned on the other thread Zaltan, shammy is a great to have with your melee centric group. The shammy will boost your war, zerker and bard if you attack with him. Cadira has some great info there but you're not considering other toons that your shammy will impact. Don't get me wrong running a mage with your crew is nice to have for sure but what the shammy brings to your group out weighs the swap to mage imho. BUT if you want to play the mage, play the mage. They are a great class.
  9. Zaltan Journeyman

    Yep the info has been great, what i will end up doing filter is parsing for awhile with the shmy or the mage in to see what the actual difference is. I will be playing both anyways but it will be interesting like you say to see how much the shmy provides to the warr and zerk combined as i dont usually bother meleeing with the bard.
  10. Tanols Augur

    Bards are sick dps at the moment. Personally I run war zerk brd shm sometimes cler. Have often desired mage for getting around but cant deny the utility that shaman brings to a melee centric group.
  11. Cadira Augur

    You asked for it!

    Beast stuff I remember parsing, roughly:

    Dissident seemed to add about 50% dps when no other HHE was present to berserker parses. A small but significant part of this is the flurry chance increase but I can't recall exactly how much. Maybe about 15% increase there alone. This would prove at least close to correct because when parsing a full burn with and without fury on beastlord (melee only), I was curious how much Fury added since the HHE on Frenzy of Spirit is better and doesn't stack. Astoundingly, it added 100k dps despite no benefit of the HHE. I think the numbers were roughly 750k dps and 850k dps, so a 13% ish increase just from fury.

    Another cool thing I found about Beast/Zerk for raid parsing....I had heard some beasts use Ruuabri's on the second set of epics and stack it with Savage Rancor (Or just considering the fact that some beasts just...use Ruuabri's whenever randomly for some reason?). I was curious how much dps a berserker lost with this strategy and how much dps a beastlord would lose if he only stacked dissident with savage rancor instead and used dissident, followed by ruuabri's, followed by another dissident at the start of the fight (like they should -- BUT I HAD TO KNOW THE NUMBERS!).
    Parsing this on the berserker was tough and time consuming because I had to take the fact that some of our burn aa's fade mid burn (I counted the burn as a total of 1 minute because of Mangling and Savage Spirit mostly). Basically had to do 30m parses of like...10 different combinations of buffs/abilities.
    But the results were: The berserker gained 18% more dps if the beastlord did his job and the beastlord parsed only 8% less stacking only dissident and savage. 18% increase on berserker huge burn vs. 8% loss on beastlord ...pretty easy math which one wins out. That doesn't even take into account the gains from the other 3 melee toons in that group! PS: It's a crime to stack SR with a fresh set of epics instead of using it directly after BA drops to finish out your Frenzy of Spirit. BA lasts 1:24, SR lasts :36 (A perfect two minutes when paired) and Frenzy lasts exactly 2 minutes...It veritably parses out better than hitting it with fresh set of epics/fury!

    Other cool Beast things: No exact numbers, but you'll only parse better with a 2hb if you have Frenzy of Spirit and Vindication running. Bloodlust "might" make 2hb better than one handers by itself but you'd hit Bloodlust with Spirit of Frenzy and Vindication anyways if you're not a dummy. Soon as Frenzy drops, swap back to one handers (assuming all weaps are the same tier of course).
    Spa 185 mods "probably" add about 50% increase in dps vs their magnitude (Group and regular Bestial Alignment, Ferociousness, Savage Rancor, Growl). Ferociousness for instance is a 100% spa 185 mod so it probably adds half of that as raw dps increase. Spa 185 seemed to add 40% increase vs it's magnitude for berserkers, and I assume it's a bit higher for people who don't crit as much which is where I approximated 50% for non-zerkers. Never parsed exact numbers for non-zerkers though.

    No idea how much Shared Ferocity adds, the attack portion would probably be weird to parse. Cool thing about attack I remember is when parsing full burn on berserker I think I remember 500 attack adding about 100k dps to his full burn (I was curious if hitting Blinding Fury was worth it if I had Quicktime -- due to the fact that they both have a 15% hhe and the only thing BF would add at that point is 500 attack). Using it later on after Quicktime faded yielded less dps gain than added to full burn. Dummy had 5500 ac for somewhat accurate attack parsing for this expansion (Sancus determined that's approximately the ac of a raid boss in an earlier post).

    It's Cattastrafy you plick!
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  12. Zolav Elder

    Did this parse early ToV to learn the diff between pierce and blunt nugget weapons. BUT you can see what the bard adds, and what the beast adds.. NOW bear in mind FE and Bard Epic and QT where not involved .. Bard does give the best OVERALL gains in dps.. BUT for burns a beastlord is a nice kick.. Doesn't answer directly what you asked but it is some numbers to look at.

    -All Parses were performed with raid buffs, so full shaman buffs, full ranger buffs and Enchy haste and Jann Illusion buff.
    -All Parses were performed with Zerker aura up and NO other self buffs unless specified below.
    -All Parses were performed with Auto frenzy OFF and on a 116 level dummy so Decap did not skew the data.
    -Any added buffs to the above will be mentioned in the section outlining the specific parse.
    -All parses are 30 min long (1800 seconds) and I just provided the dps given, if you want total damage do some math.
    -All Parses are just weapon swing and weapon procs

    Parse 1 No outside Buffs
    Pierce-total dps-94,317
    Blunt-total dps-94,610

    Parse 2, performed with Bard Aura and Aria and War March in song window (All rank 3)
    Pierce- total dps-129,468
    Blunt-total dps-129,801

    Parse 3, performed with Bard Aura and Aria and War March in song window (All rank 3) and Beastlord Rank 4 Dissident Fury
    Pierce-total dps-204,497
    Blunt-total dps-208,733
  13. Zunar Augur

    As a bst I always use 2hb now on raids.
    Outside of burns the higher dd proc and sympathetic dd seems to outweigh 1h dps. You need to account for constant spam nuking into those parses (when not burning). I cast those 0,5 sec cast nukes and save the mana for dot spamming when vindication is back up.
    That extra debuff slot too for necros, instead of gelid claw :p
  14. Cadira Augur

    Parsing in my house, I took casting into account. One handers still win. Tried a parse with and without dicho going too. You could make the argument raid lag might skew results in favor of one or the other, though, probably 2hb so who really knows. Gelid claw is a pretty nice debuff to cut down some of the damage the tank takes but I don't know how effective it is.
  15. Zerker1231 Lorekeeper

    I haven't parsed it in years but nothing i can see from gear/AAs/Disc has changed much. 2 different things to consider a bard will give a sustained increase while a bst will give a burn increase. The big increase from a bard is the flurry and triple attack buffs from aura/aria etc this is a huge increase in sustained but on a burn you also get these type of buffs from other classes like a beastlord. So while a bard does give 30-40+ % increase in sustained you won't see this type of increase in a burn if you have a beastlord in the group. However you do not need a beastlord in group unless its changed RF and Dissident are TGBable.

    As for a shaman you get some decent boost from a few things like focus, dissident, epic, Aid. It all adds up and will have a big increase in your sustained.

    We're probably the most reliant class on ADPS which sucks honestly if you don't have enough bards/shamans/bst you might as well be playing a warrior.
  16. Zaltan Journeyman

    When you mention burn are you taking into account bards funeral dirge as well. It's a pretty serious debuff for a name burn.

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