Who all thinks a Bard and a shaman merc would work with players

In the original game and for a long time afterwards Monks were the number 1 puller. This isn't up for debate and to even suggest otherwise is Iven levels of delusion.

Interesting definition. So OG does just mean that monks were one of the most common classses that got used as pullers. You even say the most common class. If this is the definiton for OG I can agree with you.

If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck...

Tell me you didn't play EQ between 1999-2004 without telling me you didn't play EQ between 1999-2004...

Tell me you didn't play an OG monk between 1999-2004 without telling me you didn't play an OG monk between 1999-2004.

Okay, I'll go first:

Going to play my OG bard puller now and hoping that "OG" is not already reserved for the monk by the forum know-it-alls.

I think a BRD merc could be a good idea, but I would make it so the BRD merc DPS's like a WAR merc while tanking like a ROG merc. In combat, it would only twist slow and snare. Basically it would be a ROG merc that took a DPS hit to slow and snare.

If it were to CC, it would target 1 mob that was not MA and keep it mezed until there was only 1 mob on Xtar. The only way to CC 2 mobs with a BRD merc is to have 2 BRD mercs.

15 years ago I was told by the tank not to slow anymore because he does more damage on unslowed mobs.

It's more of an issue for those of us who aren't tanks but have to fill in.

I agree wholeheartedly. Though the cleric merc "saved" the game for many players at the time it was introduced, it eventually diminished the player class from which it was copied while also trivializing certain aspects of gameplay. Though the player class remained superior in terms of actual healing ability (in most cases, at least), having most of the core utility spells of the class (buffs, resurrections) available to every class in the game began to affect player class desirability and overall gameplay. No longer were buffs and resurrections considered a bonus to adding a player cleric to a group -- they were now a standard part of the game for any player with the coin to hire a cleric merc. No longer were dungeon runs as threatening if the group wiped as classes that could avoid death more easily than others (bards, rogues, etc.) could always bring out their cleric merc and resurrect the group. No longer did the death of the actual player cleric in the group matter, as any class that could fade could just bring out a cleric merc, dismiss the player cleric from the group while they regained mana, and continue playing as if nothing had happened. Though there were certainly options to acquire buffs and resurrections before, many of these required players to put forth more effort and were not as readily available as the mercs made them, especially in the depths of a dungeon. The ability for any player class to provide some level of healing through their mercs also greatly diminished the value of healing itself. The game didn't even put a cap on the amount of healer mercs in a group, making groups with six healer mercs (three in each group of three actual players) possible to brute force the healing requirements of most content.

Perhaps more problematic, as future expansions were released and the number of player clerics began to diminish, the cleric merc was for all intents and purposes considered to be the default healer of most groups. The playerbase began to consider content that could not be cleared without a cleric merc and a group full of actual players to be "unbalanced" or "too difficult." This in turn led to content that ended up being undertuned to what actual player clerics were capable of, leading to content that they were unnecessary for. For a class like the cleric, which was built around a "pure healer" design concept that did not allow it to excel at anything but healing, this has ended up becoming a death sentence. Though player clerics are still needed for (some) raid content, fewer and fewer players over the next couple of years -- even those who are incredibly easy to please -- will be willing to put up with the difficulties of playing the class outside of raids just to be of use in (some) raids, if they even raid at all. I have been using the determiner "some" because even raid content is increasingly being designed with healing requirements that require fewer and fewer clerics to meet, meaning that many raid teams, including mine, will likely be testing the limits of what can actually be done without clerics to increase overall damage, reduce event times, and speed through progression.

Though bards and shamans are not as narrowly designed as the cleric class and could perhaps survive a merc being created from them, I sincerely hope that the design team considers the future implications such a move might have not just on the player classes but on gameplay itself. In almost every case, it is better to use what little resources you have to buff -- even if you turn the dials too far -- existing player classes rather than create NPCs that will eventually not only erode the player class they were copied from but diminish the cooperation and "hardcore" difficulty the game continues to tout against more modern competitors in the MMORPG genre.

The same happened with pure dps classes. Just like the cleric all of them do offer other things beside their core features but those are not very important. The warrior got also affected a little bit but survived because tank mercs are squishy and do not deal much damage. The healer merc is too strong but not in healing alone. It is the 90% rez that is much to good and there is no difference to a druid rez.

For the sake of balance and fairness it cannot hurt to add different mercs. It is known that mercs do erode the classes and roles that they got copied from. As that can be a problem the question is more if mercs are the devil and if it would be better to remove all of them instead of denying further merc additions.

I dont think they'll ever make a utility merc (bard or shaman). Cleric mercs are needed for the core game loop. Tank and take damage (healing). Basic dps mercs to help out, but oh boy are they... not good either. These fantasies about bard mercs playing the entire game for you? Pure fantasy. If this wasn't late summer where everyone was bored, the topic would've been buried.

I'm playing up a paladin in strictly group gear with some friends, and let me tell you depending on cleric mercs is not something people talk about. Cannot count the number of times I've died because both cleric mercs just didn't cast anything for 30 seconds. I'm in all 115 tower gear, and cov t2/t3 gear and its a serious crap shoot if I can survive a mission like zlandicar with 2 cleric mercs. A half conscious player cleric would make that laughably easy. Would I welcome a cleric? Heck yea! Do I want to play one? Seems boring as crap.
Thus the issue with healer mercs. Getting rid of them or making them non-functional would make me and my friends stop playing those characters, and less interested in the game overall. That would be punishing players for not wanting to play a specific class. We could get 2-3x the exp/aa with a real cleric in the group I'm sure. Because 2 mobs at once in CoV goes from sketchy it cake. Clerics aren't bad. The issue is cleric gameplay is SUPER bad. Punishing players for not wanting to play a cleric is the wrong way to go. That'll just make everyone quit. Then no one gets to play a cleric.

Vanguard was ahead of its time when it came to healing classes (I don't think daybreak/eg7 is even aware they own the game). The disciple used kung fu to power their healing, while the blood mage would blow up bad guys and use the blood to fuel their heals to their group.

Bring back Vanguard.

A Vanguard remake would be awesome.

Or you are just a bad player because as a paladin you should be the main healer beside the tank job, and not the weak mercs.

I wish I was this ignorant. Life would be so simple

Tell me you don't play the group game without saying so.
A 115 paladin in group gear self healing zlandicar? Or self healing 3 cov mobs? If you and your party aren't in raid gear - much less not having a full group (hence mercs), cov mobs (especially t2 mobs) take some time to kill cause of crazy amounts of hp.

Can a 115 raid geared paladin do that? Its possible. Raid gear removes all challenge from the game anyways so why not? Can a 125 paladin do it which is obviously what your thinking? Of course, cause its many expacs back. However obviously you never played a group geared paladin in cov.

83% convinced this is Ivens backup account lol

Ahh when you're a raid geared paladin it generally doesn't matter what the other party members have for gear unless there's a ton of AE damage. When I was raiding and playing a paladin, invite 100% trash players and go do stuff with them.

But yeah, healer mercs can be terrible