Who all thinks a Bard and a shaman merc would work with players

I wouldn't expect it to pull, just run a generic song twist and autoattack.

You sound like a player who only plays Live. Which is fine, but some 6 years ago or so Holly Longsdale stated that around half of EQ's population plays on TLP, and TLP has only seemed to grow more popular since then, so it's probably even more now. Either way, Live might not require CC but there are absolutely encounters in group missions in some expansions that are impossible without CC, and that's how they were designed. And once TLP gets to around Underfoot, the situation amplifies when the damage output of mobs does the same. You say mercs are meant to fill roles but you are obviously either a boxer who never uses them, or a person who only logs in when their static group is ready to go. There have been plenty of times where mercs can't even or barely fill their supposed role.

Also pretty hilarious to bring up the "official release" regarding mercs that launched... SIXTEEN years ago. 16!!! And you know what's happened every now and then since? Mercs have gotten buffed. It's almost as if things weren't meant to stay the same always and forever and DBG has repeatedly acknowledged that mercs have repeatedly needed to be buffed.

It's also hilarious that you claim to know that mercs were added for the dwindling population but apparently are oblivious to just how much it's dwindled. This isn't 2008.

The fact that you think you can AFK and have mercs kill things for you says everything anyone needs to know about your "opinion" on them.

So it should be absolutely no problem for you to fill a group full of PCs, which even more so negates the need for bard mercs. Thanks for your contribution

Live + multiple TLP's have made it through and past Underfoot without Bard mercs and done just fine. The next TLP to get there will be just fine as well.

Neither. I'm a boxer who relies on mercs as they were intended and designed. Which was meant to barely fill their supposed role.

And all that time, they've never bothered to add in a utility merc...wonder why that is.

I'm quite aware of how much it's dwindled. But this doesn't really pertain. I, as well as many other people, have been able to level to max and be in current content just fine without a Bard/Shaman in their group, which goes back to the whole point: utility is QoL and not necessary to progress in the game which is why we don't have utility mercs and why we will not.

It'll be slow but they're capable. Tank mercs have been used as MT's since they came out. Cleric mercs the groups main healers. Things die. They're capable of it. Just gonna be slow going

Earlier you wrote that only the current mercs are needed but then you added that you are boxing. But with boxing no mercs are needed when a healer and a tank do get used. Like so many other players you built your box groups to rely on (optional!) mercs. Paladin, SK, monk do most likely require a healer merc even that this is optional. And they would further benefit from a bard merc. Your beastlord & bard group does also need a healer merc. You are blind because a bard or shaman merc is just as needed as a tank, healer, dps merc. All of them are optional for boxing but do make more class combinations possible.

A bard or shaman merc would extend the possible class combinations. Players could ditch their slower/snarer/CC and grab another class if a merc could do the job. They could play a dps class instead a shaman, enchanter or bard. Or a cleric or druid instead a shaman. A rogue could replace a ranger, druid or berserker which got used for snaring that now the bard merc could do. Even a bard player would benefit from a bard merc as it would free up song slots that could be used for something else like a rune shield and dots.

So many more possibilities than now and it would round up groups. Nearly everyone would benefit from a bard/shaman merc including yourself.

Everything you've said is horribly wrong. I've already explained it ad nauseum at this point, but for the hard of learning, we'll go over it again.

Mercs were created so that any 2 people of any 2 classes/roles can form a fully functioning group and progress the game. Molo'ing, while some people can pull it off, was never the intention.

Given that, what is required for a functioning group is 3 roles. Tank. Healer. DPS

2 DPS can form a group by getting 1 tank merc and 1 healer merc
1 DPS and 1 Healer can form a group by grabbing 1 tank merc
2 Healers can form a group by grabbing 1 tank merc and a dps merc

Because there's ONLY 3 roles required, and each person has access to a Mercenary themselves, ANY 2 classes REGARDLESS OF THEIR CLASS/ROLE can form a fully functioning group. All of this with the mercs that are currently available. Meaning every combination is possible. Adding a Bard/Shaman merc would mean fewer possibilities as it would take away from the 3 required roles.

A Ranger and a Rogue could not form a fully functioning group if one of them is running a Bard merc. Youre missing either a tank or a healer for example.

Bard/Shaman mercenaries are not required.

And speaking of "required", no my current set up does not require any healer merc.

My pet tanks. My pet heals are stronger and have a higher crit chance than healer merc spell, and I DPS. I use a healer merc because I dislike how healing us done in this game. So healer merc let's me ignore that and focus on doing more DPS. I added a bard because for certain missions in the game I needed 3 players to request (BST + Bard + Merc). And while I can entirely solo as a BST, it's mind numbingly slow. The Bard helps speed that up, and not for CC reasons as most of my game time is spent fighting yellows/reds in which my Bard CC doesn't work on. To elaborate on that since simple concepts seem to escape you, at 120 my mezz spells land on 123 and lower mobs. Half the mobs in the entry zone to Laurions Inn are 124. AoE mez that will go above 123, I do not have access to until I'm already 125.

Is this true?

I liked CoV, but didn't play it at release because the expansions were getting too thin to justify buying each one. I might do the same thing with the next level-increase expansion since they are historically the easiest.

Wow its annoying. T2 cov mobs have the hp of a tov named, yet they somehow give WORSE exp than tov mobs. We're quseting out temple of veeshan right now and man the hp pools are gigantic in there. Its really wierd how mobs are tougher, fights last longer, and individual kill exp is worse. Much less composite exp over the course of any time period.
Bonus paladin annoyance - not everything is undead in cov
ToV really made paladins feel like demigods

Now lets get into this:

It's already been linked (may have been the other thread now that I think about it)

I never said 3 characters were needed. I said 3 roles were needed. And I used examples that would require the far end of the spectrum and require and require the most with 2 players to use 2 mercenaries.

Yes some classes, in the right hands, can perform multiple roles. But you don't build for the strongest member of your team, but the weakest link. Thus the classes who cannot fulfill multiple roles (Clerics and Rogues for example). They REQUIRE the other 2 roles, which involves 2 other members.

Annnnnnnnd this is where you lose any credibility

"Hey guys just learn to play the game. I was tanking and healing and DPS'ing and CC'ing all at once as a Cleric! Master class. Anyone who says differently is just bad and doesn't know the game. My cleric is level 47 and currently doing all of this in Kurns Tower!"

Mercs were created to help the group

- Mercenaries: Mercenaries are NPCs for hire that will aid adventurers in their heroic endeavors. Their levels and abilities will scale appropriately and they will think and act for themselves with limited player guidance. They are designed for extra support or extra muscle in PvE encounters.

function like a normal party member including taking up a group slot

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=15544

And for the others who say people create more accounts to post in the forums to gain favor and/or affect the issue..................this forum has no purpose other than to let players vent. Like the vents that sewers have.

Erm, do you hear yourself? Your logic = just because this bridge is missing a bunch of planks, doesn't mean it doesn't work! I wish there were some graphs to show the population drops around Underfoot. I also cannot count the times some forum-lifer has disagreed with something simply because they can't cope with change or because "it's never happened." The amount of things that the devs have implemented - no matter how late - really aught to show you how little that matters.

And you clearly just want to argue and not actually read, when you claim you realize the state the game's population is in and "you should have no problem filling a group with PCs." You are literally, openly, contradicting yourself in the same post for all to see. And to top it all off, admitting to be a boxer. You'll never be taken seriously again (nor will your text exist on my screen, as people like you can't actually be spoken to).

Thank you for that info CatsPaws. It does show us that Randomized once again only posted his own fantasies and not the reason why mercenaries got added.

DEBUNKED !

Just noticed that bard and shaman mercs would fit perfectly to the original purpose: Extra support or extra muscles.

Was already covered:

Someone is lying and twisting the facts and it is not me. Here below is what Randomized wrote and where he used the word "role" as a synonym for "class" which both together got used as a synonym for "character" inside the context of a group. He effectively wrote and meant that 3 characters were needed, where each character does play (only !) one role. The professor was not aware about the fact that one character can have multiple (up to all) roles and he does now try to hide that nescience.

You're lacking comprehension. I'm not using Role as a synonym for Class. I mentioned both because they're both different examples and needed to be addressed.

2 roles could indicate a healer and a dps
2 classes could indicate two classes of the same.role (Shaman and Cleric)

They're two different entities and unrelated to one another which is why they both got mentioned.

And no, I effectively wrote and meant role. This had been covered multiple times by multiple people.

Additional remark for those that do not get the point: Bard and shaman are typical support classes.

Randomized has clearly used "role" as a synonym for "class" and "character". More lies do only dig him deeper into the web of lies.

For someone who doesn't get the point:

Support just means to aid in whatever endeavor. A Cleric joining a Cleric is considered support. It's getting physically painful to watch you struggle grasping at all these straws lol

At this point they need a 5-merc limit for those of us with weird play-time hours, since based on today's reports boxing is still frowned upon.

Think they can code it so the bard-merc turns off his songs when the puller goes out to pull?