whitened treat fist vs bare fists for monk

Yay, I saw the thread title and thought I was gonna be fighting the ignorant masses again, but I guess my hard work has paid off. Science prevails!

I was part of those ignorant masses until i saw the parsed out info.

Now gearing up monks is a lot more interesting then it was before.

Also, have you been able to do any parses on test comparing 2handers to h2h @ 60?

I could, I happen to have the VP 2 hander. I don't have the epic though.

I'd be curious on some parses of it at 60 for reference, if you don't mind.

2handers are the big mystery now, as i assume the VP 2hander will beat out epic fists, but i have no idea about TStaff/IFS.

I'm pretty ignorant thanks!

That guy is 50 at the moment, I was considering doing epic at 50 to verify the ratio from 50-60. At that point I'll do all these comparison parses.

Well I did a parse of just one WTF and I got a whopping 35 dps! as a side note the procs per minute didnt change much.

Thats to be expected. The short nature of the parse makes it tough to work out the RNG, but seeing them similar falls in line with what i was expecting. The lower delay and proc makes up for the worse ratio of the bare fists.

And PPM not changing is also to be expected. Base PPM for any weapon at this stage in the game is 1, and at 255 dex it is either 2 or 2.5, so those are the numbers you'll see for the mainhand. Offhand PPM is much lower(i dont have exact numbers, but due to offhand going off much less, you end up with a way smaller proc number).

I just parsed this out myself on test server against lv 45 test dummy...1.5 hours each parse. With 1 WTF main hand with 70dd aug, and bare fist offhand, over 1.5 hour parse it came out 37 dps. With bare fists, 35.9 dps, and 2 x WTF (one with 70 dd aug, other with 60-70 heal aug)....36.2 dps.

Whats going to be really interesting, seeing that our delay is somehow screwed up and different than what it was supposed to be (38 delay instead of the 26 delay it was when first revamped). Our epic makes our h2h skill 280 until our own exceeds that (at 60 when we should be at 22/24)....which should make our fists 21/25. The problem being is that our delay seems to be screwed up and slower than what was originally given to us during the revamp. Assuming the same lowering of delay....that would make our epic give us 21/35 and 22/34 @60. Personally, if this is the case, I would ask DBG to give us the old epic ratio of 9/16 since that would far out dps the 21/35 and 22/34.

This has already been answered and parsed: the epic brings the delay down to 26, and doesn't change the damage. This gives us 23/26 epic fists at 60. Epic chaning the h2h skill isn't how it works anymore.

At some point, they either 1: gave us 100% incorrect information on how everything monk related works, or 2: changed the entire combat code for h2h damage and never told anyone.

The old damage tables you see referenced are no longer accurate.

I'm assuming the dd proc was in main hand for 2 WTF? any comparison on ppm main hand vs offhand? I am curious.

Yes the dd proc was main hand, had the heal aug in the offhand (doesn't add dps). My dex was unbuffed for the parse @131. I'm thinking of getting a dex buff and reparsing to see how much difference it makes.

Couple parses at 50. Max haste, with 255 strength, no augs. Doesn't look good for 2 handers.

2x Bare Fists:
/GU Test Fifty in 5420s, 289k @53sdps --- #1 Shekai 289k@53sdps (53dps in 5420s) [100%]

2x Wu's Fist of Mastery
/GU Test Fifty in 6000s, 427k @71sdps --- #1 Shekai 427k@71sdps (71dps in 6000s) [100%]

Bo Staff of Trorsmang
/GU Test Fifty in 7267s, 478k @66sdps --- #1 Shekai 478k@66sdps (66dps in 7267s) [100%]

Thats really interesting. Can we do an offhand parse test? Something in mainhand so we only see offhand swings? I'm curious what kind of DPS we see from just the offhand, so we can try to model its effect compared to vastly superior ratio 2handers.

But wow, i didn't expect that at all.

I would really like to see epic, wus fists and bo staff parsed at 60....would be really useful to decide the best equipment.

Ya, I'll do some main hand only and off hand only parses for the weapons in question.

In other news, BIS monk beats BIS rogue at 50, but not by much.

That is a kind of good sign. Rogues scale from 13 to 15 dmg backstabs in kunark, and stay that way through velious and into late luclin. Monks fists should scale way better then rogue weapon options, as they get epic to bump to 23/26, and then in NToV they start to get some really nice ratio low delay mainhand options, and then some more in late luclin as well. At the worst monks and rogues should be pretty even

....and to think all this time I have had these WTF's in my bank (like a lot of other monks) collecting dust. Time to put them to good use..thank you all for those involved in finding this and bringing it to light!

How much dps did you get from the proc? WTF is parsing lower than bare fist in main hand for me. Sine innate innerflame doesn't mod the damage bonus portion of the damage, ratio has more benefit than low delay now.

Originally the way HTH skill decreased in delay was a hidden haste buff to our bare fists. It appears they've removed the haste buff, either accidently or on purpose. Is it the same on Live, or just for TLP?