Which item would you choose?

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Micker, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. Micker Lorekeeper

    I'm torn between giving up Improved parry/block 7 for a much better stat parry/block 5. I have both of these, not sure what would help tanking more? The ac/hps are MUCH better on the 5 items, but no idea how much the difference between the 5 and 7 are, is it a big enough deal to give up the better stats?


    Same for Improved dodge 5 vs 7

  2. tyrantula Elder

    Bloodmoon and Dizok bow.
  3. Micker Lorekeeper

    Why would you not choose the recovered bow that has 80ac and 1k more hps also, over the dizok(230ac vs 309ac)? Is dodge 7 more valuable than parry 7?
  4. tyrantula Elder

    Sorry, you're right. I misread it because of the formatting. Definitely choose the Recovered bow. As a tank, AC is king.
  5. p2aa Augur

    I would keep the Improved dodge VII and Improved parry VII items.
    In group game, even if less than before, you can still parry and dodge hits.
    + 16 % chance to parry and + 16 % chance to dodge is better than + 100 AC / + 1000 HP difference.
    AC is old school. You won't notice the difference of having 200 less AC
  6. Micker Lorekeeper

    It's a tough question, because I don't really know the true benefit of the improved 7 vs 5 items. I tried to do a search for any parses someone might have done before, but couldn't really find anything.
  7. Warpeace Augur

    Improved Parry / Block V

    1: Increase Chance to Parry by 40%

    2: Increase Chance to block by 40%

    Improved Parry / Block VII

    1: Increase Chance to Parry by 56%

    2: Increase Chance to block by 56%

    Improved Dodge V

    1: Increase Chance to Dodge by 50%

    Improved Dodge VII

    1: Increase Chance to Dodge by 70%

    The information was already in your links. More chances at defensive checks are better.
  8. Micker Lorekeeper

    Yeah, but the question is how much is a 20% increased chance to dodge in real terms, how does that compare to losing over 200ac and 2khps, luck etc.. Is our chance to dodge high enough that 20% is a noticeable amount or is it so low, that it means 1 more dodge per fight?
  9. Warpeace Augur

    How much value is 200 AC and 2k HP and taking 16% more hits?

    To be honest It depends on the mob and how hard they hit. But I would rather not be hit 16% more than I have to be.
  10. Micker Lorekeeper

    Just found this. Guess I need to do some math right now lol. It adds 70 to the dodge spa instead of 50, ill try to figure out what that means.

    Here's how your chance to dodge is calculated:
    Step1 = HeroicStrikethrough(NPC)
    Step2 = HeroicAgility / 25
    Step3 = MIN( Step1, Step2 )
    Step4 = DodgeSkill + 100
    Step5 = Step4 + ( DodgeSkill * DodgeSPA ) / 100
    Step5.1 = Modify via luck: (Luck, Step5)
    Step5.2 = Look up roll values based on your luck value
    Step5.3 = Roll for luck mod. if it is within the right value, multiply this mod by your Step5 dodge chance.
    (ex: 50 luck (pretend values, not realistic), 50% chance to get a 10-25% dodge bonus. if we roll successfully multiply Step5 by our roll result (random between 10-25% - if we rolled 15%, multiply Step5 by 1.15)
    Step6 = Step5 / 45
    DodgeChance = Step6 + ( Step2 - Step3 )

    Roll a random number between 1 and 100, if it's <= than DodgeChance, we successfully dodge.

    DodgeSPA is the sum of SPA 174 (dodge) for AA, items, and spells (buffs).
    If you have the following:
    • AA: Item: Myrmidon's Skill XII (21)
    • Item Focus: Improved Dodge VII (70)
    • Spell: Illusion Benefit Neza (10)
    DodgeSPA = 21 + 10 + 70 = 101

    You get only the maximum value between all your AAs + the highest item focus + the highest dodge % buff (they don't stack).

    If we assume these values (as an example):
    HeroicAgility = 1009
    DodgeSkill = 520
    HeroicStrikethrough(NPC) = 0

    My total dodge chance is:
    Step1 = 0
    Step2 = 1009 / 25 = 40
    Step3 = MIN( 0, 40 ) = 0
    Step4 = 520 + 100 = 620
    Step5 = 620 + ( 520 * 101 ) / 100 = 1145
    Step6 = 1145 / 45 = 25
    DodgeChance = 25 + ( 40 - 0 ) = 65
  11. Micker Lorekeeper

    From plugging in my numbers. It looks like my real %chance to dodge is about 2.29% more with the 7 over the 5. (66% vs 68.29%) Could be a little more or less, just did quick calculation. As you add heroic stike through, it drops it down more and more. I didn't include luck, because I don't know what numbers to put in, I have like 35 luck.
    Syylke_EMarr likes this.
  12. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    Good to see the math being used instead of assuming 16% difference means 16% better.

    I'd say the difference between the items is a wash. Personally, I'd go for the better flat stat items (HP/AC). The biggest killer of tanks (wearing current content gear*) in current group content isn't really melee damage, it's spell damage, in my experience. So more HPs means better chance of surviving those spell damage spikes.
  13. Micker Lorekeeper

    Yeah, I was thinking that having an extra 2-3khps and 200+ more ac, extra luck etc, would probably be more beneficial all around, for spell damage etc.. If it wasn't such a big stat difference, I would keep the Improved 7 instead.
  14. Daedly Augur

    Your real chance at dodging is likely far less than that formula says due to other factors. So the increase would even be lower, though possibly similar in proportion.
  15. p2aa Augur

    It's better to not be hit than being hit for less, and i'm pretty certain that with 200 more AC you would see no difference in damage intake. Also i very doubt that 2 000 HP will be the difference between you dieing or not to an AE.
  16. Micker Lorekeeper

    I dont think either thing is going to make a real noticeable difference. With heroic/strike through I doubt it would be more than a dodge here or there. I gained 100 shown ac and a little over 2khps from the items and luck with from 35 to 40. I think the luck alone might possibly equal the difference.
  17. Riou Augur

    With the rates that avoidances are at with proper avoidance heroics, and how high mob heroic and regular strikethrough is, plus that they capped all avoidances in all content to like 90% or something in a recent patch to nerf full avoidance

    the difference between 5 and 7 is pretty much meaningless
    and so is Luck avoidance

    and the devs have pretty much only made it "worse" for player avoidance, instead of more viable

    Of course the same is pretty much true on the mitigation side for AC with mobs inflated attack :p
    Syylke_EMarr likes this.
  18. Flat Toad Journeyman

    If mentioned before, I apologize; ....Basic Dodge increases chances the attempt will succeed...while IMPROVED Dodge increases odds your toon will even attempt to dodge. Clear as mud?
    (1)"should I let stupid try dodging...yes/no"...is IMPROVED Dodge
    (2)"should I let stupid actually succeed in his clumsy attempt...yes/no...is basic Dodge.
    ****(Same for Block and Parry)
  19. josh Augur

    I see no evidence that mobs have inflated attack, in fact if anything they have low attack. even if they did have inflated attack, mitigation ac still works perfectly fine.

    So, 200 worn ac is about 90 display ac. From what I've seen, if you have say, 8000 ac and the mob has 10,000 attack power, you would need to increase your display ac by about 200 to increase your mitigation by 1%. that would be something like 450 item ac.

    Even if the mob had 20,000 attack power, an increase of 200 ac would still give you a 0.5% increase to mitigation. But they don't have that much attack power, if they did i would see almost half of all hits as 20's. I don't see this, i have never seen this, i have no idea where this idea has come from. in fact, the mean hit is a 1. which suggests the mobs have low attack power, not high attack power.

    boosting your ac is a small improvement, and so is improved parry/dodge these things are all very small improvements, doesn't mean they aren't worth it though, but it does mean it's hard to say which one you should go for, either is probably fine.

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