You're probably going to get massive mana increases the same way Druids and Shamans did. My SK is parked at 105 to level new characters easier, but at that level: its a noticeable boost. If you werent stacking dots before (and Im pretty sure that was not at all worth it), its pretty substantial.
As long as druid overwrite ranger and shm overwrite bst I will bench any sk that puts dots on main raid mobs in my raids And EVERYBODY overwrites bard!
Here's a summary: It would be foolish to revamp necro dots in the same way that other classes received. 1, they just had to be nerfed later because it was done poorly, but 2, and this should be blatantly obvious but apparently it's not...the other classes that received dot revamps have other roles to perform on raids except for dotting. If you revamp necros in that same way...the community does not have any reason to think it will be done right. We will either be broken and in need of being nerfed, broken and we all quit in disgust, or raiding necros will quit out of boredom. There's two main branches of what raiding necros want, that I see anyways. We either don't want to be touched at all, or we want some consolidation done on only the septic wounds line. A complete dot revamp for necros is just asking for trouble.
@Scornfire I share your concerns about the debuff issue. SK revamp basically neuters any progress towards reducing debuffs that the necro revamp achieves. However, it cannot be denied that the necro revamp reduces debuffs used by the necro class, the biggest offender of debuff usage. A further consolidation would be one possible solution, as you pointed out. But you only proposed 1 method of further consolidation, by resist types. This does have implications such as NPC resist types and bane damage. If you had been keeping track of posts I've made throughout the past few years, you would had seen that I had proposed alternative consolidation methods. Here is just one alternative method to further consolidation. But there can be many other alternatives if you put your mind to it. The method listed above prevents DoTs with the same color group from stacking. For example, you have to choose between using a Pyre or an Ignite. The advantages of this method leaves room for NPCs with different resist types and gives the necro more options in choosing a lineup. I don't know if Aristo is considering further consolidation, but he has been included in a conversation with lots of data by Prathun through PMs that Prathun and I have had. @Forcallen I am having a tough time getting a good read on your concerns. In your response to me in this thread, you express the desire to keep the class complicated based around circumstances. Then you post today about how this change will widen the skill gap based on using older versions of DoTs to prevent going out of mana so quickly. I do understand your concern for increased mana costs, as other revamped classes have expressed. To me, this is one of the least of my worries as a necromancer. I hardly utilize any of the mana recovery methods that I have access to currently. In raids, I don't ever have a need for clicking death bloom or blood magic or mod rod. I'm basically near full mana still at the end of every raid encounter. In groups and solo, I never have to sit out of combat to regen. We have more mana recovery tools than druids, beastlords, and rangers. We are probably on par with shaman, if not ahead, in recovery tools. @Ravanta Suffer How goes retirement? I don't think you speak for all necros when you dichotomized their wants. I do think that they all have agreed, so far, that the Wounds line needs a consolidation, and perhaps reduction in time. I am guessing that the first phase of necro revamp will include a wounds revamp, as included in a PM with Prathun and Aristo on how problematic this line can be. @Kizant That is an interesting suggestion, and would definitely be a possible solution to the debuff issue. I don't know how you will get the hybrid classes on board with such a suggestion.
you're that strongly opposed to winning? If the spells are strong, it's not misbehaving to cast them. That's already the case for 1 ranger dot, 3 beastlord dots, 3 druid dots, 6 shaman dots, 1 cleric dot, and the bard set. Better than the bottom of the linup for necro spells. There's nothing intrinsically virtuous about necromancer casting shabby spells. If their shabby dots get squeezed off the mob for lack of space, then there's larger issues (which hopefully this thread / older threads / Aristo at home this month are addressing), but it's not an SK's fault for messing up
It was more sarcasm. Our only dot that might make that lineup is the blood line, but were already at a premium for spell slots. our dots on test do less avg dmg than bard dots, only thing I have had time to compare it to so far, and debuff slots at a premium, I would say no from the small testing I have done. I will do more testing before I make a definitive for mine.
Haven't raided for a couple of expansions but I'd like to thank the hell outta the devs for reducing the duration of our DoTs and making them hit for more. I think we got our revamp. A few more tweaks seem OK but I sure wouldn't want to express displeasure at the changes that have happened fairly recently to necro's just because a druid is taking advantage of what is made available to him/her Hope to be back within a year to play with the possible lineups and attempt The Parse-Crushery I sense is available to us now. I can understand how RoI necros may be a bit displeased but from what I've seen by way of parses on the next tier down of raiding guilds our deeps is pretty sweet and comes with less complications. Again! Well done necro devs! Thx!
A dot revamp won't simplify the class. At best some of the variables change but the number remains. At worst as I expect we get more things to juggle at once and the good master it and avg to bad fall further behind. I don't want the class to become a use this 1 spell set in the same order always no matter the circumstances. The art of the class is the draw and you have always been rewarded for it for as long as this games been around. We are not hurting in any key area to the class post enhanced decay changes. Except for the limited situation of not being able to utilize doom dots in most/many raid settings which is why I strongly suggested the Wounds line changes I explained earlier.
Since SKs and Necros are related classes they should make it so the Necro DoTs overwrite the SK DoTs. On raids that would make sure debuff slots aren't wasted while still giving SKs extra DPS while they solo all the group content. so do same ranger and druld - and Bst sham ??
I wonder what the feasibility of the debuff bar being "smarter" is? If the debuff bar checked what dots were on it when the npc was casted on & then feedbacked to the caster if the casted spell was too weak to land (does less damage than any of the current dots). Then you would have a debuff bar that filtered for the best dots /debuffs that are on the mob & informed players when they were casting dots that simply weren't going to be added as a better damage dot occupies the last available debuff slot. That might necessitate a "leaderboard" sorting of the dots on the npc so that the highest were at the front. Split debuff/dot bars are something that would need extra coding but are another possibility, same number of slots just presented to the player in a better way. I am guessing this isn't done currently due to the server load it could cause or it just hasn't been looked at as a solution yet, clearly the debuff slots are a finite value but better management of them seems to be a part of the solution.
Change where the dot is tracked. Track the dot on the character casting the spell instead of the mob. Then have that dot cause the damage to the mob that way without taking up a spell debuff slot. An example of this would be clerics Ward line, but have it deal damage to the mob and set it on a 6 second timer. Have the dot not break root etc...
You two do realize he was just quoting what Kizant said and asking a follow up question? It wasn't his idea. Also, his question makes sense. Why do that for necros and SKs but not for bsts/shams and rangers/druids?
