Where is our necro DoT revamp????

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Hadesborne, Apr 5, 2020.

  1. Hadesborne Augur

    Come on Devs. Remember back in the fall when you said that this thing would be done by the spring? Again we get strung along. I feel like Charlie brown and the EQ devs are my Lucy. They keep yanking the ball out right as we are about to kick it. JUST REVAMP THE DOTS ALREADY! Enough is enough.
  2. Forcallen Augur

    On live Dzarn remedied this some with the Enhanced Decay AA line. It doesn't start until level 86 in HoT so I am sure stuff like starting it sooner, additional tuning to existing ranks or adding more ranks are all fair play. But a full dot revamp would be bad at this point on live.

    If you are talking about TLP servers prior to this AA line then Aristo is your man and good luck with that.
    Evurkvest, kizant and Scornfire like this.
  3. Coas Lorekeeper

    Enhanced decay is by no means a fix for necro dots needing a revamp. Enhanced decay was aimed more at freeing up debuff slots on raids. Necros are still very much in need of a revamp/consolidation. Druids on our raids win nearly half of all parses, and can hit 15-20 million damage per tick during burns. Necros are nowhere near that, and they are supposed to be the top dot class.
    Solliane and sauron3030 like this.
  4. Scornfire Augur

    We can absolutely exceed 25mil a tick during burns, if you're not hitting that mark it's because you're not using wounds, and that's a pretty RoI specific issue due to things generally dying faster than they do everywhere else. The only reason Druids do so much is because of 1 broken spell that gets modified by something it shouldn't be getting mod'd by, that's not something that everyone else should be balanced around.

    Today, as with every other day in the past 17 years of me playing a Necromancer, I have 0 complaints about the class, we're OP as hell and have been for pretty much every era of EQ.
    Kuvani, Cicelee, Sagarmatha and 5 others like this.
  5. Forcallen Augur

    Enhanced Decay basically did the same thing with less work and avoided the issues of mana cost that you know Aristo would have gotten wrong. That doesn't mean necro's couldnt use another rank or 2 of ED. And or Doom dots base duration shortened by Aristo.

    A) Druids should not have gotten enhanced decay considering they already had their base dots revamped.
    2) Chromatic Haze and Gift of Chromatic Haze should not work on Druid dots.
    Evurkvest likes this.
  6. kizant Augur

    Dzarn did make a lot of good (and some too good) changes to help with the fact that they haven't done a full revamp. You should probably assume it's still very difficult and still not likely to happen any time soon. Then suggest other specific changes they could make in the mean time to help improve the current situation.

    Also, if it's not clear to everyone. Druids aren't doing 20 million per tick constantly. You're talking 2 ticks every 15 minutes. It's still a lot of damage but by itself I don't think it's that significant. More burn classes should be able to do something similar imo.
    Jaylnn and Duder like this.
  7. Coas Lorekeeper

    It is significant when you have a priest class topping parses during raids.
  8. Marton Augur

    Enhanced Decay AA was not a bad idea but it should have been given to necros only.
  9. Drogba Augur

    And shadowknights
  10. Marton Augur

    Yes. I came back little bit after I posted and wanted to add shadowknights but it was already after 30 min and I could not edit.
  11. Evurkvest Elder

    I cant see anything good coming out of a full blown nec dot rewamp now after the lingering death changes for "live" players. When there is no time for wounds we still make good dps, even on sub 1 min encounters. Sure, we will not be on top but you cant have it all.
    Jaylnn, kizant and Scornfire like this.
  12. Jaylnn Lorekeeper

    The change to the way they did things with enhanced decay is very nice. Necro's dont need a full blown revamp. A few extra ranks enhanced decay would do wonderful things, you could even lower the levels for the earlier ranks so they apply towards TLP stuff.

    Not really discussed but just 2 coppers. As far as group's i would consider creating an entirely different aa of enhance decay. Making it so it works on stuff that is under 18 seconds to increase damage. Right now the fast dots serve very little purpose. You can't lower the duration limit of enhanced decay as it would give 48 seconds of damage across 3 ticks (and a phantom tick) effectively having 3-4 ticks do 11 ticks worth of damage. It would just create the same problem that some of the other classes got with their revamps and version of that aa. Right now, the fast dot's dont really serve a true purpose anymore so there isnt a real point in continuing them. Some dont like fast dots, but if you want to keep it useful you would need to create a new line to work with them. Start with it adding 6 seconds of damage to short dots only. Whether that be 1 rank for 6, or 3 ranks for 2 seconds each.

    What concerns me more than anything else, is there has been every indication they were consolidating to use less slots, but at the same time encouraged or gave everyone something to put on the mob. Debuff slots are at a premium, and i think that is the biggest concern of the necro class overall
  13. kizant Augur

    If druids were already too strong to deserve the enhanced decay changes then that is even more true for shadowknights.
    Solliane, FawnTemplar and Allayna like this.
  14. menown Augur

    I will argue that a DoT revamp is still needed. Here are a list of reasons why:
    1. Skill gap between pro and novice necros is too large.
    2. Debuffs on raid targets are a premium.
    3. Swapping spells constantly mid-fight is poor class design.
    4. Class balance on TLPs after about Luclin and before Enhanced Decay AAs.
    In the correct raid context, necro DPS is fine as is. As Scornfire has stated, necros can hit about 25 million on their top tick with all their DoTs during a burn (confirmed). I think that is why so many people are weary of receiving a DoT revamp. Classes who have already received a revamp had a huge jump in their DPS. A similar jump in DPS to the necro class would just be begging for nerfs.

    However, in the same context, I would say that certain priest classes, who have already received a DoT revamp, are already overperforming. This begs for a re-evaluation of the Enhanced Decay AAs, a focus line that can increase the DoTs base damage by upwards of 200% (duration dependent). This focus line is way too powerful compared to any other AA or Item or spell focus.

    As a result of the Enhanced Decay AAs, our Cascade of Decay proc (duration 36 secs) performs way better than it should, but our Swift DoTs (duration 12 secs) are hardly utilized anymore. The necro DoT revamp would exclude changes to Swift DoTs as they are already linked with prior versions.
    Here is what needs to happen:
    1. First remove all Enhanced XXX line of AAs from classes that already received a DoT revamp, and lower mana costs of all revamped DoTs appropriately.
    2. Then adjust necro & shaman swift DoTs upwards.
    3. Finally, revamp SK and necro DoTs, and remove their Enhanced Decay AAs entirely.
    The removal of the Enhanced Decay AAs would help to offset the gains added from a DoT revamp. I could add more about changes needed for the necro class (e.g., Defiler's Synergy, Wounds duration, Scent of Thule, Swarm AAs), but this topic is only about necro DoT revamp.
    Solliane, Coas and Szilent like this.
  15. Cragzop Augur

    Pretty sure calling for other class nerfs are against forum policies.
  16. Forcallen Augur

    Don't think it matters what we think but I mostly disagree. ED was easy, effective and did what it needed to do without a ton of work and likely problems. Could we use another rank or two or some tweaks for sure. Just like a few other classes could have theirs reduced or removed but it did the brunt of the work. Yes it altered how things worked and threw out a lot of other dots use but we still play the class the same, weaving multiple dots to be the most effective we can be.

    1. No matter what you do every class has a drastic skill gap. Its an old game and there are so many different spells, discs, AA, clicks, ADPS, etc that it is what it is. To me shifting when or how you use something based on the circumstances at hand isn't that hard. Repeating the same thing no matter the circumstances would have retired me 10 years ago. There are plenty of classes for that type of play if someone prefers it (not you specifically Shen).

    2. 100% agree on this. They admitted it was a problem and yet every year pile on more and more and why it was so backwards to revamp dots for others first. He could have consolidated just the 111+ dots which was suggested a few different ways and it would have gone a long way to reducing debuff bloat.

    3. I am ok with this in raids as long as it limited to 2 spell sets, its not currently. It pays off for doing it and its part of the fun/challenge to the class being of a sustained nature.

    4. I don't know how things play out on the TLP's but its pretty easy for them to change when this AA line becomes available. Or to have Aristo alter 15ish dots from 1-70 then it is for him to retune like 500 dots. If you count ranks just going from 111-115 we had 60 dots for him to retune both the base damage and mana cost. Zero chance he doesn't bork that if carried from 115-1 for necromancers. Nor does it seem like a single dev has time for anything of that magnitude on top of the other 9 hats they all wear a once now.

    If Aristo attempted a necro dot revamp its like 500+ dots he has to retune, both the mana and damage (which varies based on era with what else is available as far as AA, focus, adps, etc). That is a metric ton of work and effort for one class. Dzarn can tweak a few lines, add or remove the AA by class or level and it covers all that in a tiny amount of comparative time.
    Evurkvest, Marton and Scornfire like this.
  17. yepmetoo Augur

    So is changing what someone else wrote and pretending to quote it.
    Solliane likes this.
  18. Hayzeus Augur

    I'm not sure if I like it when Forcallen and Menown disagree on the forums. They were always my go-to for necro information when I played regularly.. Whenever they post, I take the time to read what they're posting because they know stuff about stuff.

    To me, they're sort of like the Mom and Dad of the class. I'm not sure which one of you is mom and which one is dad, but I'll let you two sort that out. Maybe take turns?
  19. Allayna Augur


    the worst priest class.

    Ask druids, rangers and beastlords how they like the status of their mana after having the revamp.

    The DPS increased, but the work to maintain some semblance of mana throughout a fight is tedious and if a druid or ranger dies, forget it.

    Necros should get their revamp imho, but be prepared to sacrifice the extreme modding you still get 100% uptime from your epic. No other class in game gets that. Be prepared to have significant mana costs.
    Solliane likes this.
  20. Ravanta Suffer Augur

    Eh, mana concerns would likely never be something necros have to worry about.

    Retirement is great. Definitely recommend it.

    Ps, yeah, I've already given away my stuff.
    Siddar likes this.

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