When will the next Progressionserver start? :)

exactly, if LJ had instancing I would have stayed but they created instanced server (sadly with boxing restriction) not long after LJ launch... we were in what Kunark?

So I went from paying/playing 4 accounts without using obscure keyboard tricks or macro programs, I used hotbuttons as I have always done, albeit I did use [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] to arrange the windows but I did NOT and I do not support the keyboard clickthrough, never liked it and it always confuzzled me since I actively play my main (the tank on that server) so clicking all the hotbuttons just made the other boxes do weird shizz... so I quickly turned that off since it was ruining my gameplay, the other boxes had 1-2 assist buttons depending on what I wanted them to do, the healer was freehanded aka alt+F1-5 for heals etc. and hotbuttons for other stuff (da, db, divarb etc but LJ never got to that)

The reason for moving to Phinny was to get a more relaxed raiding scene and it is brilliant... I over time got 2 more computers so I know 3box but I would still prefer to be able to alt tab through them on the same pc over having them on different ones... it uses way more power now and makes my pc desk a mess.

And not just that true box is a bad idea, but they are also missing out on having a really good group focused no boxing server. P99 proves how popular that can be. The only good grouping EQ experience with no boxing, and it is not even a daybreak server... Ridiculous. I had groups on that server at level 2 all the way up to level 55 ish when I quit, and that was after the server had already been around for many years. I rarely had to solo if I didn't want to.

And on another server, they modified the client to only log in a fixed number of times. The rule was to only allow 3 boxing at the most, and if you tried to log in a 4th client it would give an error message and not log in. In other words, DBG should be able to make their own 1 box server and I bet it would be very popular. I would play it for sure.

And I am a huge fan of multiboxing. I have boxed 2, 3, 4, a full group, full group plus 2 buffers, and even 24 boxes all on one pc on another server. But focusing on one character and playing with real people is a lot of fun.

I would love to know what they think the logic behind True Box is.

As witnessed by the fact that the two most popular TLP servers to date have True Box rules.

Many of us pitched for a one box per house server; however, the incessant, "my spouse, my roommate, my kid" whiners persuaded DBG to true box. True box doesn't circumvent Joe Bozo from being his own group, but since Mom and Pop can't play from the same computer, True box allows both connections from discrete systems.

Really? Is that why the picture of True Box, posted by DBG, showed a one-man command center with multiple PCs? Don't project your own beliefs as DBG's intentions.

Because all the posts complaining about boxing on RF/LJ back in the day pretty much all said they don't mind the small scale boxer, it was the big boxers they hated. Truebox is a simple way to reduce the over all number of boxes on the server without eliminating boxing all together. Most people like to have the option to log on a second toon. Most people who game regularly also have a second computer laying around somewhere.

Your whole two or three log-ons per computer idea would have done far less to reducing large scale boxing. All those folks with 4-6 computers would be boxing 2-3 groups. Limiting by IP, even if it was 2-3 log ons per IP would have been a CS nightmare for them. Trying to police the use of third party programs as a primary means of limiting boxing is also a CS nightmare for them. They needed an option that reduced but didn't eliminate boxing, and didn't require much if any policing by a live person to function. Truebox accomplishes all of that, and most people adapted to it quickly. Even the most die-hard alt-tabber that I have talked to has eventually come around to the truth that trueboxing is more efficient. (The key is numberpads, not full size keyboards, for the boxes.)

I will never play on a TLP server that doesn't have trueboxing. People are jerks. EQ players are people. It really only takes a handful of massive boxers to run roughshod over a game like EQ. Even with raid instances, far too much of EQ still takes place in open world zones. Unrestricted boxing just leads to a toxic environment, and these TLPs can be toxic enough.

At some point on Phinigel at least, I think they should probably remove the truebox code as it has served its purpose now. A fair amount of the game still takes place in the open world but with the amount of group content that shifts to instanced missions plus the ability to /pickzones when those zones become overfilled, I doubt many issues would arise at this point in time.

I liked it when there was no instanced group content, especially when so much of the content wasn't instanceable and wasn't /pickable. But now with DoN out and DoDH on the horizon with workable pickzones, I'm not sure it's necessary anymore.

One thing that seems to continually get complaints on these forums, even with the truebox code limiting the mass mage armies, is the inability to finish specific quests. Things like the Epics, Chardok Ring/SWC, Coldain Ring 8/Shawl 8, Scout Charisa, PoGrowth Tunare quests, Praesertum Sigil Earring Quest, etc. The majority of these are in zones without raid instances and either they don't spawn in raid instances or pickzones don't stay up long enough for them to spawn. If they could fix the later issue and makes these mobs spawn instantly on pick creation, I'd absolutely love to see a forced pick system. Like a raid lockout, once per week you could /forcespawnpick and create a locked pickzones for your group or raid to do whatever quest or camp you'd like to do. It would collapse after an hour and you+anyone you bring with you could not /forcespawnpick for another 6.5 days.

That would allow people to bypass bottleneck steps in certain quests or flags very sparingly such that it doesn't absolutely destroy the economy or the desire to participate in the open world. Having a hard timer on the pick remaining open would theoretically limit the issues the server has faced in the past with excess picks sitting open for weeks on end with one person in them the majority of the time.

It is the instancing that makes them popular, not the truebox. Do a non-instanced truebox prog server vs an instanced no -truebox server and you would see what I mean.

Wow... Sorry many Everquest players have spouses and families now, since the game is 19 years old. I am also sorry you have no spouse, roommate, or kid that may be interested in joining you in your hobby.

But really... what percent of EQ players do you think have a family member or roommate who they play EQ with? We talking 5%? 10%? More? I dunno, I felt like the fact that some people couldn't play with those who they wish to play with on the server shouldn't have been the reason to not make such a server. There's plenty of other servers for people who play with multiple people in their house.

I tend to agree that the difference between one connection per IP and Truebox server would've been a massively different server. I'm not sure if it would've been better or worse though. On one hand it gets back to the more classic extremely reliant on other people experience of EverQuest. On the other hand it's extremely tedious in some cases and a large number of people could not (see above) or would not (avid boxers) play on the server and the population may not have been healthy enough to support such a server.

I don't know, either, but I can give you one example. I play with two guys who are RL brothers and live in the same house. Lately they only play TLPs. If they couldn't play in the same house at the same time they wouldn't be playing EQ at all.

[citation needed]

Are you really attributing the success to the true box rules?

Yes, that's the main factor. However, that wasn't the reason for me. I don't raid so the raid instancing means nothing to me. I wanted to get away from the Lockjaw mage army cesspool and Phinigel was the way to do it. True box didn't dissuade me. Now that I'm accustomed to it again, I prefer it to alt-tab boxing (I never used any 3rd party assist programs).

I don't see how this needs a citation....

If someone is True boxing 6 PC's, and can now run 3 on 1 pc, they now have the potential of 3 groups

Customer service with 3rd party applications ends up being a He said vs she said, and they see symptoms of applications but may not have hard proof, or not have hard proof they are willing do disclose (as it could create methods to prevent them from detecting in future cases if you know how they detect.)

It’s called common sense. The folks currently using 6 computers to 6 box would just triple the toons on each computer if allowed 3 log on’s per computer. Not like krono to pay for those accounts is hard to come by. Blocking things by IP is a CS nightmare for p99 (6 month waits for excemptions?) it would be the same for EQ. Not to mention it’s easy enough to get around, who doesn’t own a phone that can serve as a tethered hotspot? EQ uses very little data. Hell, I used my phone as my only internet for over a year while living in Korea. So now instead of the boxers being the ones who can afford more than one computer the boxers are the ones who can afford more than one internet connection. Congrats, you totally solved the problem.

Any plan that requires Customer Service to oversee it is bad, because CS is a continual cost, and a hefty cost at that. Where as the true box code is a one time cost of developing it and maybe a few tweaks here and there and done. As a company that is trying to make a profit it is the far better option.

You wanted to know the thinking behind it. The thinking it obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together. The simplest way to reduce boxing without destroying it and with minimal long term cost. Truebox. There are far more people willing to tolerate the truebox code than people who will quit because they can’t box their army on one computer. As evidenced by the success of the two truebox servers.

Phinegel has several variables to consider:
-true box code (aka you won't compete with mage armies was the sell)
-instancing of raids (no sitting around "competing" if that isn't your idea of fun)
-load balancing (sober second thought on this one is it has created a linear leveling path, though it sure does help in that launch week)
-classic-ish XP rates (not a sell to everyone)
-stated unlocks & shortish unlock timeframes
-no voting

Agnarr has all of the above and the mythical Mac Server "lock" replication (impact of that remains to be seen) without the classic-ish XP rate off the hop (big deal to slow playing alt-holics)

True box is not the reason the raiding population has been so happy on these two servers, (though they benefit from mage armies not taking whole raids) it is the instancing of raids and predictable progression that doesn't put things on farm super long (or super fast because one guild races the unlocks and moves the server along).

True box is probably more beneficial than harmful to the casual population and you can possibly make the argument that load-balancing beyond newbie zones has hurt the casual leveling crowd by creating a max/min leveling path & philosophy. A non-toxic server culture is an even bigger plus to the casual community. Raid guilds are a big part of setting that server culture.

They could play on Fippy or Ragefire or Lockjaw was my point. Those are TLPs just different flavors of them. Or hell they could even play on Phinigel and Agnarr and a hypothetical new server could limit to one connection per IP and they just couldn't play on that server.

Maybe that would mean they wouldn't play EQ at all, but as with all business decisions they'd have to weigh whether the loss of people who would stop playing entirely because a new server wouldn't let them play with those whom they live with is greater than the number of new customers they would bring in to a server that is only one-boxers. I honestly don't know if it would or not. I feel like P99 has that market locked down pretty well and a large number of them wouldn't come over because of new UI feature or simply just having to pay money for their entertainment. So it very well may be they've weighed these options and decided Truebox was best already.

But it won’t be only 1 boxers. Because customer service is really the only way to prevent boxing, P99 has it, EQ won’t. It is too costly. Because when you are charging people for a product what you can and can’t do to them without evidence and get away with is a whole lot different than when you have a free emulated server and you don’t have a staff to pay. As has already been mentioned. Tether a phone and presto, you can box. An actual CS rep doing “Boxing checks” would be the only way to stop that, and that is cost prohibitive. The single box server you want will never exist in EQ. It is too expensive to police, the majority of the population doesn’t want it, and it already exists in P99. Sorry.

Oh no, I don't want it. It's too tedious and stupid. But I did find the logic behind the decision to go Truebox code instead of IP limits an odd thought process if the driving force was to allow family members to play together. Not every product they put out needs to be aimed at or be accessible to everyone. Some servers are for some play styles and others are for others.