When is charge back acceptable?

Thank you. I've made this argument a few times, but apparently a lot more people than I imagined don't believe it. I guess that does make them more effective than I thought if people truly believe there is no recourse against them.

Honestly if you do it, they will retaliate. Doesn't matter how in the right you are, DBG doesn't like it when you get a refund that way. (Since they can't refuse and it hurts their rating with the processor) If you ask them first they likely won't do it either so its really like others have said, do you ever want to play again? NOW, this *IS* something I'd consider a chargeback on if they refused to refund my money.


Again for the "you have other servers and EQ2 you can play" sure... right but that's not why most of these folks subscribed again..

I'll go back to my purchased ticket analogy this time lets say a movie theater not a concert venue... you got a ticket to Star Wars.. oops they sold 1500 tickets but the theater only holds 500! That's ok, they have 3 other theaters you can go into, sure NONE of them are playing star wars but that's OK, you still get to sit in a theater and see a movie! ... Ya basically the argument your trying to make here.

^^ in case you still don't get it, that's NOT OK. DPG are ... well really ignorant if they thought there wouldn't be a huge demand for a TLP w/ real GM's and limited boxing. I guess I shouldn't be surprised at this point... just disappointed for those who really wanted to play this time around but cannot.

Yes, 3 of my friends have already charged back.
You are free to do it, your accounts will be banned but it doesn't really matter if you aren't going to use the service.

Internet lawyers.

The EULA goes back to the SOE era, they were a much bigger company; you don't think they had a lawyer draft and certify the text?? You don't think their lawyers understood that many customers were/are outside the US??

If you chargeback, you will get account-banned. It's been the company policy for many years now. It's standard policy throughout the online gaming industry. If you're sure you have a beef, go talk to an actual lawyer, see where it gets you. Making noise in the forums only makes you look like idiots. And take the time to actually read the producer's letter on these service problems, because otherwise you look like double idiots.

BTW, my sub is annual, so I pay $10/mo, not $15. I get oodles of value out of that, regardless of the short-term service issues. I have a hard time understanding why people who claim they were intending to play on the new TLP for at least a year, and who say they spent big bucks on bags and etc, didn't at least budget for an annual sub.

You bought AMC Unlimited Movie Pass, but Star Wars was sold out during pre purchase for the first month.

Sure, most companies would probably give you a refund if you asked. But did you even ask?

The bold part is something that baffles me as well. On the Everquest facebook group some clown was posting about cancelling and doing a charge back and let slip that he'd only subbed for one month. All that claimed enthusiasm and his planning was to take it a month at a time? Something is wrong with these people.

I suspect that if there's any sort of mass charge back we can expect future TLP's to only be available to accounts that have been in effect and paid up months prior to release. That is if they don't decide that the charge backs are just making any future TLP untenable

A very simple rule is you can charge back any time that you have attempted to contact the company that made the charges to resolve the issues you're having. If they have failed to provide you with what was promised when you agreed to pay them money, they've failed to hold up their end of the agreement. If they make no changes to appease you, let your credit card company or bank step in and handle it.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Just give it up.

They can ban any account they want at any time they want, for any reason they want, period.

You don't like those terms, don't use their services.

And what exactly do you think is going to happen when you steal from a merchant (which is what a fraudulent charge back is, theft)? They are going to let you keep using their service?

Buyer's remorse is not "legal" grounds for a charge back. Not liking how often a service that EXPLICITLY STATES IT DOES NOT GUARANTEE UPTIME is available is not "legal" grounds for a charge back.

Please, do a charge on your account so no one has to read these dumb internet lawyer things from you anymore.

How is this even remotely close to whats happening? In this argument you bought a specific ticket to a specific showing at a specific time.

When you buy All Access you aren't doing that. Sure you may be only planning on playing on a specific game or server but that's not what you are buying.

The new EU laws do have better consumer protection that part is accurate. That’s why Blizzard just set up auto refunds for WCIII:Reforged. But in that and some other similar cases it was for a single product not a subscription to a suit of products.

Exactly. Its more like you buy a ticket to the local fair, wanting to ride the tilt-a-whirl, and you happen to show up when its down for maintenance and start screaming wanting a refund (after you spent a few hours at the other attractions).

I have no problem if people are unhappy with what they paid for.

But acting like you can do a charge back with impunity because of buyer's remorse is insane.

No they can't. companies have no right to simply cancel a service for no reason. This is breach of contract and a breach of contract will always grant the customer the right to chargeback and reclaim the money from the merchant. Through chargeback or any other means.



You are also protected from a merchant who has become insolvent. When a merchant breaches a contract when they become insolvent, you have a legal right to reclaim funds tied to that service.

Again (I speak for the EU), but in the EU a consumer is allowed to use chargeback to pressure the bank to reclaim all the money tied to the service or transaction even after the company went bankrupt.

Thankfully that is not how it works. Regulatory bodies determine the Consumer protetion rules. Not companies.

Sstart learning your rights as a consumer instead of cursing at people. You don't need to be a lawyer to understand your rights.

And your lying to yourself if you think there aren't a lot of people who came back just for that server. There isn't a single other one they offer with the same ruleset. (Hay convince them to refund my lifetime sub and you won't ever have to see me again... but since I did buy one and can't play, its forumquest to get my value out of it ;P )

All this charge back nonsense is going to do will be to change the way that you sub to any future TLP's if there are any future TLP's. You'll not be able to go buy a month the day of server opening and log in, it'll be like they've done with Krono and marketplace purchases and you'll have to be subbed and paid up for long enough that you can't do a charge back

Something tells me that someone issuing a fraud charge back doesn't give a damn about getting banned.

Some of that may be valid if you had a valid reason for a chargeback. In this case you do not so your points are moot.

I never said they didn't come back just for that server. That doesn't change the fact that what they bought was not just for that server.

Exactly. Blah blah blah and it all comes down to the very simple idea of:

BREACH OF CONTRACT

There was no breach of contract. The contract explicitly does not guarantee you no down time or access to your preferred server to your preferred game.

Internet lawyers are dumb.

Don't be an internet lawyaer.

Let's just say everything you THINK is true applies as you THINK it does. Now let's get down to this (from what you yourself just posted):

"on the basis of breach of contact"

Please explain to the class where there was any breach of contract?

Are you guaranteed uptime? No.

Are you guaranteed access to a particular server or game at all times? No.

There has been no breach of contract. Buyer's remorse is not a valid reason for a charge back. If you conduct a charge back you have committed fraud, and the CONTRACT (lol) you have agreed to explicitly spells out they will ban you.

You know, what really gets me, is how you can, in the same breath, claim the EULA isn't binding, then talk about a "service contract" that they somehow breached.

Pray tell, where is this "service contract" at? Oh, wait, its the EULA you agreed to.

Seriously, just stop.This is no different than returning fruit to the grocery store because it was "mealy" or "tasteless".

Will some places let you get away with it? Sure. Is it moral, ethical, or legally justified? No. It's you being a jerk and expecting special treatment.