When does tanking get more complicated?

Will be playing my first Tank in a raiding environment, a SK, starting tomorrow on Lockjaw. I have a spot in a raid guild and was wondering when does tanking get more complicated?

Define complicated, the basic concepts stay the same through the entire game

Tanking is never complicated. It is an art form though. Anyone can tank a single mob. Anyone can eventually learn to tank two mobs or three. A really good tank though does more than just hitting taunt and swinging at the mobs. He positions them for maximum dps. He calls out the one that needs to die first (healer/gater/etc.) He learns what mobs do what, what are mezzable and are not. If two are in camp and one is mezzable? He should be on the one that is not, and should be informing the group that X mob is not mezzable.

It's not complicated, but it does take skill and learning.

When you start getting good at it.

Silku, I like that explanation in thought, because how you stated it, but have to disagree with the first half, respectfully. Though one's definition of complicated may vary, you could state nothing in EQ is complicated relative to other things, I believe tanking can be very complicated if you're adept at it. For example, I've seen an SK in RoI snap AE aggro, mobs, off the casters, grab the raid mob when the warrior dies, then pull a mob from a cross the screen that was chasing a healer/dps, all within 2 to 3 seconds (takes decent muscle memory and reflexes to have enough hotkeys set up for certain situations). Tanking is only as complicated as the situation calls for, so very rarely do people see a high level of tanking, or a great tank for that matter.

An amazing tank (Sk's can do some really cool looking things) can do wonders, that the average player, or even the vast majority of EQ, imo, doesn't have the reflexes for. In certain situations I would say an SK has a higher skill cap than an Enchanter, and they're one of the hardest classes in EQ!, due to how quickly they chain abilities (instant), therefore greatly affecting several areas of a raid, if it gets spread out.

In certain situations every class in EQ can do some pretty awesome things, that the majority of the EQ playerbase is honestly just not capable of. The chance might not arise, ever, for certain people, because they're not playing with a crew that just isn't at that level. Usually, tanking a single mob is never hard (especially in EQ, though that is different in other games), but sometimes it can be, for whatever reason. An example was in Cotf people would constantly tell me an SK and Paladin couldn't consistently molo certain mobs, because the damage would spike to high. But, then I'd see a skilled SK or Paladin solo that same mob another Sk/Paladin couldn't molo (it took forever).

To do some of the more complicated things in MMO's people have to have a lot of hotkeys set up, and be able to hit them quickly, and accurately. I have something around 90-110 hotkeys set up for Enkel, on this computer. The keys are bound to my keyboard, mouse, and then those same keys with Shift. Many players are slow to hit their spells and abilities (or you catch them just spamming their multibind hoping something will happen), even if they're hotkeys, because they click the majority of them; they only hit their multibind when it comes to the keyboard, mainly. As I stated above, hotkeys and their proper use is an example of something that can be complicated for many, and requires skill and learning to pull off.

Personally, I do believe tanking can be very complicated, if not the most complicated role in eq, while also requiring skill and learning (due to it being complicated).

tl;dr:

-Complication is only equal to the task at hand.
-Amazing tanks can do some crazy thing.
-Tanking, imo, is complicated.
-If you're adept at using hotkeys, some pretty cool things can happen in quick succession.

-Use hotkeys/keybinds, please.

Obviously its easy Nothing to see here

nothing to tanking guys this never happened, dont let them fool you roll a tank and see for yourself

I don't use hotkeys, i click stuff individually. Hotkeying everything may be very good for dps class, but not needed for tanks for them to do their job really.

good god does that ever explain a lot.

I wholeheartedly disagree. If you're not using hotkeys/keybinds, you're not playing the tank archetype, or any archetype, up to it's potential.

Notice how he said he "clicks" things (IE: Mouse), that alone causes so much loss of time due to added reaction time and the economy of motion.

Working harder not smarter is obviously better.

The most important thing to play a good tank is reaction time.
I never used multibind, and it doesn't warn me to do my job well.
There are times when you don't want all your stuff greyed out by multibind.

.

I think your not quite understanding the purpose and use of multibinds. You don't just mindlessly use them, you plan out what the most efficient setup is and you keep things that you will need to use situationally outside of multibinds.

The devil is in the details and proper use of multibinds doesn't or atleast shouldn't impact your ability to react on the fly, if it does, your setting them up poorly. Thats not the methods fault, thats operator error or lack of forethought in the planning process.

Nothing about EQ is complicated. Busy? Sure, but simple.

I never use multibinds either, but full on keyboard. Alt+num ( and - & + ) to cast spells, numpad for hotkey abilities, control+numpad for secondary hotkey mappings, and shift + num for page changes. If you can type, how hard is it to alt + 1, numpad 0, control + numpad 1, control + numpad 2, alt + -, shift 2, numpad 0, shift 1, tab to next target, alt + 1 and continue, for example ( Terror, attack, Repel, Lacerating Blades, Spear, Epic click, Terror on another target, just as an example ).

Once you have a setup, muscle memory kicks in and you just go to town. Clicking is horrible and in my experience, multibinds can skip a beat at times. Man up and keyboard it!

Getting back to the OP's question, basic concepts remain the same, but the complexity of play to perform at or near your maximum effectiveness does increase. The complexity increases as you have more tools at your disposal (tools being spells, discs, clickies, activated skills and activated AAs). How complicated the added complexity makes things has a lot to do with your own skill and the way you set things up.

Here's some further details on how complexity increases in later expansions. This is for the paladin class (since that's what I'm familiar with). I know SKs have a similar set of skills, so I would expect similar complexity. Many other parts of the game increase in complexity as well, this list is just for new tools added to the toolbox of things that might be used during tanking. Given the amount of time between expansions, you should have time to get familiar with new things and figure out where they fit into your play.

original EQ:

Here are tools you might use while in a tanking role, some are more situational than others. Some of them are things that would be primarily covered by other classes that are better at them (like heals and cures):
taunt
bash (if using a shield)
yaulp
2 stuns
root
undead nuke
pacify
cure poison & disease
Lay Hands (72 minute refresh)
weak healing (greater healing @ lvl 50)
cancel magic

original through velious:

Not much changes:
-you get 4 discs, which are all very situational due to long reuse times and short durations
-group heal spell line, you might use it in raid aoe situations, but probably not much in groups
-heal over time spell line, initially it's less mana efficient than your instant heals (gets better in later expansions)

Luclin

-AAs are introduced, you'll get 1 activated AA that you'll use while tanking (divine stun), everything else is passive
-cure curse spell line

PoP, LoY, LDoN

-1 new activated AA (hand of piety)
-new line of heal spells - fast casting, less mana efficient
-new spell line for curing disease, poison, and curses

GoD

-2 new activated AAs (radiant cure, purification)
-1 new line of stun spells (bringing the total to 3)

OoW

-OMM BP clicky
-epic 2.0 clicky

DoN

-first line of mitigation discs

DoD, PoR

-new line of short duration tanking buffs (ward of tunare)
-new line of undead nukes

TSS, TBS

-2 new activated AA lines
-new line of hate over time spells
-cure corruption spells

SoF

-1 new activated AA line
-new reverse DS spell line
-new group heal spell line

SoD

-4 new activated AA
-6 new spell lines
-withstand disc line

Underfoot

-6 new activated AA

HoT

-two more mitigation disc lines
-3 new spell lines
-1 new disc line

Dangit Tiersin, you made me snort beer out my nose reading that!

I personally use Hotkeys for all of my abilities. I only multibind about 3 abilities that i like to smash all the time. Bash/Kick/gut punch/snare. Outside of that each ability I hit is a single ability, I like the flexibility that it gives and doesn't pigeon hole me into specific disc orders as I feel they change quite a bit based on encounter and or healing for the night.

Man 18 days later after Tearsin posted an useless contribution to these boards, like he did on many threads recently (so making personal attack instead of contributing) you quote it again and post on it. Apparently something that you have been the only one to find funny.
Congrats.

Wow, I finally got around to reading the thread, and thought his comment was funny.

Play the game the way you want, p2AA, it's totally your call.

It's also our call to laugh at your gameplay if we so choose.

I never got a great handle on which instant abilities would play nicely together, so I have separate buttons for most and just roll my fingers over the 1-2-3-4. A couple of those buttons go deeper than their immediate ability, since I have them mapped to hotbar 9 as well. Together, they cover:

Bash
Knee Strike
Gut Punch
Shield Topple
War Stomp
Disarm
Warrior's Bulwark
Tormenting Shout
Imperator's Command

lookin' like this:



Feedback welcome~