When does EQ become harder?

Well, I like eq for the grind. In WoW you could fly around and dismount into a camp of 20 mobs your level, kill them all in a matter of seconds and walk off scott free. In EQ if you run into a camp with 20 mobs your level by yourself, you are dead. The AA system in eq is also good. Gives you something to go out and do once you hit max level aside from sit around running laps and jumping cracks while you wait on raids or pvp. It is a slower paced game for sure. Hence the grind. Neither mmo is particularly hard period. Dodge this, dont stand in this, press this at the right time, rinse, repeat, render it a different color with a twist on the next fight. Welcome to MMOs.

That's the truth. Ai just isn't that hard once it is figured out. Pvp actually is the one thing that makes any game truly hard.

Unfortunately for eq, pvp is quite bad so we must settle for the grind.

Lol instantly proving my point: EQ players confuse time with skill. Or how "seeing the content" is somehow DOING the content.

>3% of the population got into VT before PoP.

1. Citation needed
2. Key mob spawn rates are "hard content"?

>Nothing in WoW is as hard as solving EQ strategies back in between 1999 and 2001.

Oh please take off the rose-tinted glasses chief, the HaRdEsT cOnTenT in EQ in-era was having a 56k dial-up.

Here are the dank Classic strats that "needed to be figured out" for at least the first three expansions:

Non-current tank takes death touches
Have disease potions
Joust

This is of course assuming the mobs weren't instantly obliterated because it was pre-MoTM and you could bring more than twice the amount of players to raids as most WoW content :thumbsup:

I don’t think solving strategies was ever really that big of a problem. Open world bosses that had multiple guilds competing against and key/flagging components cause progression to happen slower.

But at the end of the day, does making a guild farm a mob for 3 months to key their players up make it “harder” than allowing players to complete a mission in an instance? Probably not.

Those are time gates, purposely put in place by developers because players WILL consume content faster than developers can develop. WoW puts up less time gates, more people clear in era. EQ put up more time gates, less people clear in era.

I will never see time gates as something that makes the game itself harder. It makes real life, and your ability to be able to raid harder. But if your guild has the skill to figure out how to defeat a boss, spending months farming keys/flags didn’t attribute to that.

I'd love to see some of the WoW people list out or just link the strategies for the Mythic events being talked about. Also, "WoW players are just younger, bigger, faster, stronger, better looking and have superior success with the opposite sex" isn't exactly an argument in favor of your position.

Run a box of characters on a Live server, and you will do way more than just click a couple buttons during fights. Other than that, the game was designed to be a slow experience where the majority of the game is about preparing for battle rather than the battle itself.

You can go to youtube and type in Mythic WoW Raid Strategies and search for yourself.

Here is one for you, which is easy to watch, harder to do, mind you.

"Also, "WoW players are just younger, bigger, faster, stronger, better looking and have superior success with the opposite sex" isn't exactly an argument in favor of your position."

This is a point I'm not going to go into detail defending. Not because it isn't generally true (referring to the younger, sharper, quicker thinking, more tech savvy aspect of the claim); I just don't want to give certain people a list of reasons to feel bad about themselves. I won't be elaborating or saying anything more about this point.

I watched that and a couple of others.

Interesting but not that hard to do

If you think that it is many times more challenging than EQ then I can only conclude that it's not EQ players who are generally less sharp and tech savvy

Just sayn'

"I watched the video and concluded it's not hard."

You people are becoming memes. Here is a tally for how many attempts it took the best guild in the world to clear Mythic Uldir. Again, watching the video is easy to do. Actually being in the raid, when your working memory is having to maximize your dps rotation and having to maintain awareness for all the mechanics going on at once, isn't easy to do.

Taloc = 0
Mother = 8
Zek'voz, Herald of N'zoth = 8
Vectis = 22
Fetid Devourer = 133
Zul, Reborn = 27
Mythrax the Unraveler = 184
G'huun = 285

Let's analyze the stupidity of you trivializing the Mythrax Mythic encounter a bit further. . .

In WoW, a game with, lets just say, one million+ raiders. The top .1% of that one million raider base took 184 attempts before killing Mythrax on Mythic difficulty. These people are professional raiders, literally getting paid thousands of dollars a month to play and stream WoW. Yet here we are, claiming what they do 'isnt that hard' and it's comparable to content in EQ.

You're an absolute joke code-zero, along with every other clown who plays EQ and thinks its even somewhat difficult compared to modern games.

285 attempts? context needed

Fwiw, I don't think you can come in here and tell people they can't give their opinion on which game is harder without having played Both when you've seen almost nothing in EQ, Coirnav is so far in the past I was in grade 5 when Luclin originally came out, I'm 26 now. The game has changed just a bit

The best guild in the world took 285 attempts to kill the final boss on mythic difficulty, and they were the first in the world to do it.

The problem is, nobody is posting videos or showing any hard evidence of when EQ actually increases in complexity; and becomes more than tank n spanks fights with gated content, which can all be zerged with enormous raids.

Somebody actually suggested somewhere on these forums that if you want EQ to become difficult, you should dual box and try to raid in later expansions. Like, really, is that what it's going to take?

EQ is not a game we play because it's challenging. It's one we play to experience a somewhat immersive world with a social-grouping game design.

I was more curious if it required tuning passes/fixes before becoming beatable, because 285 attempts is a shitton to fail on

There's some streamers in higher end Guilds like Zaknaffein/Duhbeast on twitch, think there may have been a RoI one but not sure who, our members don't tend to stream till the progression race is over, at any rate those 2 will likely stream tomorrow night. Only T1 TBL stuff at the moment though, and one person's PoV doesn't provide a full picture of most of the raids, especially if you watch Zak's as he's a tank, but it'll give you some idea.

Even when you get to the higher end stuff in EQ the difference player to player can be quite stark in terms of performance and ability, after a few wins in any game most events become fairly trivial/failproof, but people capable of playing any Class at a truly elite level in EQ is quite rare tbh, that's where things get more challenging.

But yes, the early stuff, due to the limitations at the time, is going to seem extremely trivial to any gamer, because it is, there's no real mechanics or synchronization to speak of outside of the old school CH rotations.

I think it's worth pointing out that videos always make things look easy. I've often watched somebody playing a game and I'm like, "wow this guy sucks, that looks super easy" and then played it myself and was like, "huh, this is harder than I thought". You can pretty much just focus on the big picture while watching, ignoring the fact that the players still need to be maximizing their own actions at their particular role while also managing all the mechanics. Failure at either results in a wipe.

I know it's fun for people to pass off WoW as easy, but it's really not, at least at a bleeding edge progression level. WoW can seem easy because it offers a lot of difficulty levels and it also *rapidly* trivializes its own content with gear, at a rate much faster than EQ. So the difference in difficulty between being the first through and finishing it much better geared 3 months later is pretty extreme.

Wait, it looks like Mythic Uldir was launched Sep 11, they beat it sep 19, followed 5 hours later by another guild (Which I'd consider more a luxury of being a euro guild than anything). How could they even have time in a 8 day window to make a total of 667 seperate attempts at the raids?

Not usually. 285 sounds worse than it is, because wipe resets are pretty quick and easy in WoW. You can rattle through a lot of attempts reasonably quickly.

The guilds that are the first through and wipe that many times do so because they're beating the content significantly undergeared relative to what the devs design it for. It's meant to be beaten later on, after you've collected more gear from the earlier events, as well as gearing options outside of raiding. With crisp enough execution, the best guilds can sneak by with less gear than intended.

I'll check out the streams. But as I've mentioned elsewhere on these forums, the barrier to entry to EQ Live is far too time/resource intensive for me to make the move over.

After a wipe, a reset can be done realistically in > 5min on a consistent basis. But I've been in casual raids where it can take 10minutes+ between wipes, and I think for the non-Mythic crowd, longer times inbetween pulls is normal.

But lets not forget that all of the top raiders are already familiar with the fights having been the guinea pigs doing them on test servers; and Mythic raids aren't time-gated via having to key up every member of a raid, or whatever.

Moreover, the top guilds are running near perfect group compositions (often leveling certain classes to max level that will only be OP for a single patch); and they farm the best gear possible, as fast as they can, via crafting and bind of equips listed in the auction house. They have nearly infinite resources.

I found a cool site, it lists the time and order each guild in the world completed the final boss in Uldir on Mythic.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/hall-of-fame/mythic-raid/uldir?faction=HORDE

Interesting that the content is all accessible like that, or do you just mean the devs expect people to farm the first few Uldir events for a while before moving on? Anyway, that seems more like people making things hard on purpose. I don't imagine even the best EQ guilds would have a very fun time tackling TBL without the proper gear from RoS like the content was tuned to be beaten with. If we had Access to Silverwing and Xygoz day 1 of RoS it would've been a bloodbath lol

If we're gunna go there, 0 Guilds cleared Tacvi while it was current

Go play WoW on Mythic and report back. New patch 8.1 is released in January. Let me know how it goes before you try to claim EQ is even comparable in difficulty. My guess is you'll come back to EQ after your mythic raiding guild puts you on the sidelines for poor performance on the dps parses, and forces you to raid normal/heroic with their alts. In EQ there is no comparable to this social aspect, because performing at 90% of your classes efficiency is enough for your mythic progression guild to replace you on their 20 man raid roster.

Getting an army of geared EQers and zerging a boss isn't comparable to having to navigate dozens of mechanics on a Mythic encounter. You apparently don't understand the significance of what I'm saying, just go see for yourself.

I'm not making the claim, you don't get to either, because you're playing content older than my car