what will you play on the pvp tlp?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by RABKkehhalla, Jul 29, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. code-zero Augur

    They said no free trade servers but they were able to find a mechanic with the randomized loot system to offset many of the difficulties of a free trade server.

    If the PvP people could figure out a mechanic for a server that wouldn't make PvP a gankfest dominated by the most toxic individuals in the game maybe there'd be a hope for one.
    NinjutsuMMO likes this.
  2. NinjutsuMMO Augur

    Not sure what I would play, every class can be fun.

    If they do a pvp tlp I hope it’s locked in a early era that makes it so we can rely on pvp skill rather than PVE gear from raids to be viable.

    Pvp is the most fun I’ve ever had in Eq1 in early expansions.
  3. Machen New Member

    Err, that's really the whole point... If such a mechanic were discovered, pvp players wouldn't want anything to do with it.
    code-zero and oldkracow like this.
  4. Xanathol Augur

    EQ is a great game. EQ PvP is an all time bad game.
    Nolrog likes this.
  5. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Sullon Zek's ruleset was about as good as EQ PvP ever got in my view, its deity/team based system loosely similar to DAOC's far-superior RvRvR combat.

    Most fun I had fighting other players was in DAOC, closely followed by W.A.R. Warhammer Age of Reckoning's big flaw was it's engine could not handle the larger combat styles like Fortresses and City-Sieges very well at all, servers would lag to death then crash all the time, W.A.R. only being 2-faction rather than 3 faction was also something of a bummer, when they first announced it was being developed I was hoping for something like 9-13 factions of Warhammer being involved.
    I did like W.A.R. much more than DAOC for the graphics & greenskin humour though, the game setting was way more enjoyable.

    EQ was built from the ground up as a PvE game though, to do player combat well I think you have to build that into the game from the ground up, you can't do it justice as an afterthought because you really want the world design to support that playstyle unless all your PvP is instanced.

    EQ probably could do some Instanced PvP/RvRvR type stuff if it wanted to but the open world PvP just plain sucks in my opinion, EQ as a 1v1 game is a joke but as a team v team v team it could be a lot of fun the big problem is tuning for it as that would be a full time job for at least couple of devs I reckon and when you look at it that way its just too expensive to do now.
  6. NinjutsuMMO Augur

    I think they could just leave the classes as are more or less and just open it up to FFA or teams.. seems simple if you lock it in a early era with some minor changes. Would be easier than adjusting every class for every expansion, spell, AA and gear / item
  7. RABKkehhalla Elder

    No adjustments needed. Of course there's classes that are overpowered. They're the same classes that are overpowered in pve. When I pvped in eq most the fights were group fights +. When. It came to 1v1 you had to literally know when you were outclassed and send out the smoke signals for your buddies to come.
    NinjutsuMMO likes this.
  8. NinjutsuMMO Augur

    I agree more or less and I also don’t know why class balance ever comes up in pvp when class balance isn’t and has never been achieved in PvE..

    You have to know your strengths and weaknesses and pick your battles carefully and get backup when needed.

    I personally don’t even believe pvp means go out and gank the first person you see but it’s nice to have the option.
  9. NinjutsuMMO Augur

    I would also be happy with a rework of the red player name tag that flags you for pvp via the priest of discord.
    I would go red tag if I could be buffed and healed and wasn’t forced into being solo for the entire time. I’m not sure who thought of that idea and who approved it but it’s a poor design in my opinion.

    I raid and group and do solo content and if I went red tag with the current system I wouldn’t be able to raid or group again so it’s not an option.
    I can’t understand why anyone would want to prevent their character from being able to receive buffs or heals or such on a pve server with the current Priest of discord design.

    If I could go red tag on a pve server and still receive buffs and heals so I could keep raiding and grouping I would do it and in sure more people would also go red tag for fun but as it stands if you do it you’re screwed. ( poor design)
  10. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Is it poor design or preventing players from abusing the system by getting heals/buffs from a player that can't be attacked? A pvp player being able to stay healed with a pve player sounds like a big advantage. Though having the ability to toggle pvp on and off at a PoD could be helpful.
  11. Green_Mage Augur

    There are flaws in each of the ways EQ did PvP. Tallon and Vallon Zek had non-hardcoded teams that were broken into racial groups. In the end however, there tended to be 2 big guilds. One for evil or "dark" races, and one for the good/neutral races. So the teams became somewhat irrelevant.

    Then there is the problem with Sullon Zek's hard-coded teams. The teams were split between good evil and neutral deity worshipers (no agnostics). The problem here is the hard-coded teams meant some teams had a lot bigger player pool then others. So evil ended up dominating the raid scene, with neutral and era behind and good an era behind that! But instances could alleviate some of this.

    Then there was the classic Rallos Zek open pvp "red" sever. The problem with this sever was no one wanted to actually pvp. If you engaged in PvP you were considered a "PK" and no one except other PKs would group with you. It was actually the worse sever IMO because of this dynamic. Item loot made it even worse because people were even more scared to PvP ever.

    Maybe the culture has changed so the an open ffa sever would have some actual PvP on it. It's also possible that many would be happy with the dlcs with hardcoded teams. This would prevent all the raid activity from stacking on 1 team. The only thing I didn't like about the SZ teams was it meant paladins ragers and druids were off limits to evil, meanwhile necromancers and shadowknights didn't exist on good or neutral.

    Racial based teams, if done correctly, might be the best option. However I'd be willing to see how a PvP red works. As long as it doesn't settle into a PvE sever with some ganking and stays an actual PvP server, its probably the best.

    Level restrictions are nice to prevent griefing in theory. But in practice they are just exploited by out of range healing in the like. Meanwhile on SZ -- they just made it so you took no penalty for dying in to someone above 5 levels higher than you. This made it a waste of time to grief lowbies and people didn't do it for very long back then*.

    *there are always exceptions to this on pvp servers.
  12. Wulfhere Augur

    Simply False. I played on all the PVP servers and Rallos was the first and the best (PvP) server of all time. RZ server defined everything that was good and bad about EQ: from exploration and holding territory, to PVP war and alliances, to killing the Sleeper, to role playing (we invented Innoruuk's Daughter i.e. Lanys T`Vyl the usurper).

    It has not gotten better since then and that is the problem. It's not a mysterious unexplored world anymore. That glamor is lost and every TLP shows it's age.
  13. Machen New Member

    That's not at all what happened on Tallon. I don't think you could write this if you played there.
  14. Nolrog Augur

    EQ Zek Server, last 6 months. Every time a status was returned, it was low.

    Raw Stats
    High Count: 0
    Medium Count: 0
    Low Count: 25118 (96.91%) - Estimated Time: 174d 10h 20m

    Total Uptime Count: 25118 (96.91%) - Estimated Time: 174d 10h 20m

    Locked Count: 220 (0.85%) - Estimated Time: 1d 12h 40m
    Down Count: 4 (0.02%) - Estimated Time: 40m

    Total Downtime Count: 224 (0.86%) - Estimated Time: 1d 13h 20m

    Estimated Times Server Locked or Went Down: 10

    Status Error Count: 578 (2.23%) - Estimated Time: 4d 20m

    There is no evidence that a PvP server would be viable.
    Stymie and code-zero like this.
  15. Shakara Augur

    Issue with most of the arguments against a PVP server are that it would be unpopular. I would agree with this if they launched PvP as is. With some changes though PvP would have a decent chance at becoming popular again as EQ has a decent foundation for a PvP game. My own 2 cents on what need to happen before a PvP server is realsed is:
    1. Resists reworked. Gearing for certain resists to defend against specific attacks is an interesting choice and good design. Right now some spells land and other don't which creates some very polerizing PvP.
    2. Goal oriented PvP. If you want good OW PvP there needs to be purpose behind PvP. Most OW games do this by creating points of contention with some sort of reward for winning PvP engagements. This is usually in the form of resources (loot, gear, consumables) or safety (giving you some sort of homefield advantage of the turf you have won.
    3. Risk. Right now with PvP the only thing you lose is time playing the game if you die with rez sickness. Good PvP games make the world scary with some sort of risk. While not practical for EQ the most common way is by having full loot PvP (Runescape, Eve Online, and Albion Online are a few examples). In addition there need to be rewards for players taking risks.
  16. Atomos Augur

    It doesn't matter how interesting you try to make EQ PVP, not enough people are going to play it. Making it worth playing would take a considerable amount of work and redesign, and that will never happen without enough interest.

    Last year EQ PVPers tried to get people to login to the Zek server to show DBG that there was a market for EQ PVP. They even got it put up on some gaming news websites:

    I wasn't at the event and don't recall how many people they were able to get on the server. But a couple months later there was an AMA hosted and some PVP server questions were asked. These are Dev responses:

    AbsorEQ 04/08/2020 at 5:51 PM
    I hate to say it, but I am more convinced now that not enough people want it to justify setting up such a server. The high population on the day that everyone was supposed to show up on Rallos was, frankly, very low. Certainly not enough to support a server. This would be my answer to most of your other questions about PVP things.

    Aristo 04/08/2020 at 5:52 PM
    There's definite passion out there. We just haven't ever seen the numbers.
    Skuz likes this.
  17. Shakara Augur

    This is not true. People make custom emulated PvP servers all the time and they do decently. One in fact just launched the beginning of this month. The reason they work is because people take a couple moths to go into the game and tweak it so the PvP is more balanced and fun. If people do not enjoy the product its because its not good if you make it good they will enjoy it. Putting no effort into because people don't like it is just a copout. The small population that came outon that day said we are willing to play PvP as is. There is a much much larger population that would play PvP if it was different.
  18. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Just who on the dev team do you think has time to do that?There is already a small dev team with a limited about of time to get work done as it is so why spend a lot of time on one of the least populated servers?

    As they have said time and time again there needs to be proof there is a demand for pvp otherwise any time spent on the server is wasted and means the rest of the servers will get less work done.
  19. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    And yet even on a server that is completely free to log in (Zek) the turn out was completely crap, you are not going to persuade anyone there is some secret mass of PvP players out there just waiting for a new PvPTLP server, AKA you are all kidding yourselves EQ PvP fans even exist any more.
  20. Atomos Augur

    All the time, lol.

    Feel free to list any private EQ PVP server and I will check the population myself. Those servers can barely get 100 people playing and they are FREE to play.

    Putting effort into something a few hundred people AT ABSOLUTE MOST is going to play would be such a financial waste.
    Skuz likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.