What will the necro DoT change do?

Discussion in 'Casters' started by CrimsonDeath, Dec 5, 2016.

  1. CrimsonDeath New Member

    I read about a Necro DoT revamp...what exactly will this do?

    I noticed they nerfed the skeleton swarm spells (all same recast timer) and I'm fine with that, but what will the DoT revamp mean for Necros?
  2. gotwar Gotcharms

    If it works like DoT consolidation has for other classes (and I imagine it will), it will be awesome for necros.

    The way it works now:

    - Stack multiple DoTs on targets, take up an insane amount of debuff slots on the NPC, hotswap a lot. Appear to be Cannidancing like Shamans did in the days of EQ yore because you spend so much time swapping spell gems. Take 10 minutes to ramp up your DoT damage because dmg per tick is so low and it takes 10+ DoTs to really see a good DPS impact.

    The way it will work after:

    - Have each DoT line "consolidated" so that only the highest level DoT in each line will stack on target. Damage per tick will be ramped way up so that this one DoT castable in each line will be more damage per tick than the 3-4+ DoTs from that line they were stacking before. Far less hotswapping, and much faster damage on target (DoTa, a term I just made up that's definitely not trademarked anywhere else), because it won't take forever to "ramp up" said damage. Far less debuff slots used by each Necro and much much less "DoT maintenance". Far less calls from your RL to add "moar dots" and no calls to "stop dots". As a double-edged sword, it will be harder to spot "good" Necros, as they will no longer be separated by their knowledge of 30 DoTs and ability to use all of them in a way that provides awesome sustained DPS. Players new to the class will have an overall easier time getting "up-to-par". IMO that can be a good or a bad thing, depending on perspective.

    Will be a good thing when it happens. For everyone.

    Shamans need dat love too.
    RPoo likes this.
  3. catcattank Elder

    why would they wait so long to do something that seemingly took a lot less long for other classes
  4. Sindaiann Augur

    Although I have been a big supporter of necro dot consolidation for a long time, I warn people to be careful what we wish for.

    I have a suspicion that something gets broke for necros and Lord help us when they start that complaining. Lol
    Felicite likes this.
  5. Sancus Augur

    Revamping DoTs for Necros is in a completely different league of difficulty than revamping them for classes that only have a couple of DoT lines.
    Felicite and Sindaiann like this.
  6. ~Mills~ Augur

    Still should have happened before other classes dot revamps and before alliances. Which both only furthered the problem of limited buff slots and buff blocking. Its almost been a year now.

    It also would have been a much easier pill to swallow seeing other classes get 28k base dots once we saw how they handled our dots.

    Regardless of what other mods we have on various reuse timers we shouldn't as a class that pretty much entirely relies on dots for dps in every setting be forced to cast multiple times to catch up to what other classes dots can do with a single cast when its their supplemental form of damage. Thats the big concern atm. So say there are 3 mobs being killed in 3 casts an enchanter can be rolling out 84k base damage in dots and is free to move onto other duties or dps. Whereas depending on how they handle necro dots it might take 2-3 casts per mob to catch up regardless of our superior dot tools without other supplemental dps to fall back on we just have to keep stacking dots for the most part. Except when we burn some long reuse dot boosting ability. We also fully expect our dot mana expenditure to go through the roof and likely not be paired with any re-tuning of our mana regen or concern for paying full price for most dots that don't run their duration. IE pay 100% mana cost for a 40% damage return most of the time, despite on paper the mana to damage ratio looking if you say the dot ran its entire duration.
    Felicite likes this.
  7. mtbryant New Member

    I'm "extremely" leery of the Necro DoT changes for a number of reasons , first off being in a solo environment its pretty easy as it is to strip aggro off your pet ,it your DoTs were doing 2-3x more dmg per tick ,you'd be in some serious trouble with this.

    The "answer " to that would seem to be increase Necro pet aggro ability ,but then Necro pet isnt as strong as Mage pet so you stand a good chance of losing it and since virtually everything in EoK summons and they basically took aggro away from our swarm pets, again you are in a bad place in a hurry.

    Finally, as has been pointed out, changing DoT mechanics for Classes that use them as marginal supplemental dmg is a lot different from revamping Necro DoTs which is their core dmg - remember when they initially "revised" pet aggro ,and it ended up being 4 major patches over 6 weeks with huge reversals first this and then that ,and at the end of it all, we pretty much were back where we started, before they touched it at all. Not a good sign.

    Finally, it's been almost a year now since the first DoT changes for other Classes , so I'm not convinced we will ever actually see them for Necros, so it may be a non issue altogether ,but imo it opens many cans of worms ,and given every change to Necros for that same year (or more)has resulted in a net nerf , I am not looking forward to them , at all.

    It's already made me switch my Main from Necro to SK /Rogue ,and if they break - nerf Necros even more with the DoT changes i'll probably just hit the DELETE key and reroll a BST in my Necros slot.
  8. fransisco Augur

    You can't drop all the drawbacks of a dots and replace them with all the benefits of nukes.

    And yes, mana costs will increase by 5x or more I'm sure.
    I'm imagining that necros will be doing some nuking after the change, since they won't have to cast 30 dots, which is kinda stupid.
  9. menown Augur

    But will Necros have inferior Dots and DDs compared with Enchanters?
  10. fransisco Augur

    Well, necros have tons of abilities that really increase dot damage compared to enchanters.
    With higher dot damage, its possible alot of necro abilities will be scaled back. Otherwise, you'd have necros burning like they can sustain, which would make them like SKs and berzerkers - completely broken.
  11. ~Mills~ Augur


    Misinformation. If they made every necro dot insane then yes it would be an issue. No if they gave us one or two massive dots and left the rest alone or slightly boosted it wouldn't change much outside of drastically shifting our dps potential forward. Which makes a ton of sense seeing how they keep pushing everyone elses burst up at the same time as pushing their sustained out.

    If paladins can out burst sks and warriors put out the same why are they not broken? Just about everyone can burst these days except necros.
  12. menown Augur


    The answer is no. Not really because of your answer but because necros get like 15 DoTs and enchanters get like 3. DoTs are generally more damage than DDs so the necros DPS will be higher than an enchanters on sustained, always.

    Prior to the DoT changes that enchanters received, their best DoT was better than the best necro pyre. I assume the ratios will be similar to slightly more advantageous towards enchanters.

    What needs to be fixed is the aggro that these super DoTs give.
  13. Brohg Augur

  14. fransisco Augur

    Is that a thread from the beta forums Brohg?
    I don't have permission to view it
  15. Tucoh Augur

    It is. For posterity:
    fransisco likes this.
  16. Tryal Anderror Journeyman

    My fear is around the Wounds magic line of DoTs. Currently when kiting you use all 3 and the effect that procs at the end causes insane damage.
    The 3 DoTs stacked can do 3.5 Million damage+ over 1 million each while others struggle to top 400-500k

    So unless they triple the damage, which I can't see them doing, then we'll be out of luck for kiting in EoK.

    I'm also worried how they intend to balance total DPS. If they want our DPS to be similar, then they'll have to make the DoT damage weaker because they'll assume we're then nuking more because we spend less time Dotting.
  17. ~Mills~ Augur


    yeah the big four concerns are:

    • That aristo makes at least 1 or 2 of the dots have massive base damage so we can ramp up in one to two casts. Doesn't need to be 28 k like enchanters but that doesn't mean we shouldnt have one 18 k dot and one 20 k dot.
    • Mana concerns if dots suddenly cost 5 or 10 k mana per cast since this isn't our supplemental form of dps. We can't chase GoM procs when using our primary form of dps. And we shouldn't pay full price for dots that never run their full duration in the group game without a major boost to our mana regen to offset the increased expenditure, even if in tuning the efficiency of the dot looks good when you calculate it based on running its duration. Fixing ignite synapsis to actually return mana like mind storm does for enchanters while also boosting its return a lot. Boosting our lich mana return a lot.
    • That aristo at a minimum combines the 3 doom dot lines into a single dot. This is a massive part of our sustained so would need to be maintained with adjustments in total overall dot stack power coming from boosting the first 1 or 2 dots and then keeping the remaining 10-12 lines flat or only slightly increased and then the doom line also be boosted a lot by being a combination of the 3 dots necrotizing and doom, pernicous and doom and mortiferous and doom.
    • Dot AGGRO.
  18. Nindienx New Member

    Please don't make the DOT change easy mode for the class, or vanilla out the class either. Al ot of me likes it the way it is, but i would like to see some better ramp up.

    Side note: What kind of line up do alot of you guys use for grouping? I box a Mage and Warrior, Bard / Shaman and do the bulk of the work with my Necro so was just hoping to tune the DPS better.

    Swarm, smouldering, 2 ticks (3x), then i guess 3x wounds?

    Thanks, 9.
  19. Vrinda Augur

    Aristo said:
    “DoT revamps will resume after I'm reasonably happy with these spells for Empires of Kunark. Doing both at once is madness.”

    While I agree that doing both at the same time would be suboptimal, it looks like Aristo is done with the tuning of EoK spells, and I am an old lady. I'd like to see the necro dot revamp before I die of old age.

    For the record, I'm in good health and have no expectation that my life will end anytime soon. But how much longer will we need to wait? With the existing debuff limit and all the extra alliance debuffs being cast by every other class in Norrath, even two necros on a raid seems to be one too many.
  20. Brohg Augur

    Smoldering? like, Smoldering Shadow? That's a two minute dot; hopefully you're killing things much faster than two minutes!

    And Wounds? Those take like three minutes to do their damage, they're solo/raid only. And, like, The Bridge Keeper, I suppose :p

    Swarm, Swift Swift Swift, Impose (for the Synergy) on each normal mob.

    If they're taking more than a round of that to die, then (#1: probably need to review what your other characters are doing) you lead with a couple of Jorobb - Marnek - Ignite104 then do your fast 4

    Even if things are lasting two minutes, there's all of
    Dichotomic Paroxysm,
    Pyre of Jorobb,
    Pyre of Marnek,
    Ignite Synapses,
    Annihilation,
    Ignite Thoughts,
    Glistenwing Venom,
    Pyre of Hazarak,
    Termination,
    Binaesa Venom,
    Plexipharia's Pallid Haze,
    Ignite Potential,
    Pyre of the Lost to go through before thinking about Smoldering Shadow...