Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by ibc93, Feb 6, 2022.
Wasn't that bard dicho? I could be wrong.
It was bard dicho
It was pretty much Velunka's Perserverance but targettable.
You had to decide to use it on yourself or on another.
But it was free.
Now to target someone else you need to sacrifice your own mana.
I don't mind how it is now since we have the self only if we need to top ourselves back up.
All the largest nerfs were fixes or mistakes that were fixed. Mod Rod was made No Trade because it was infinite mana with sufficient prep time to summon the rods, drop them on the ground and cycle picking them up and dropping them again to prevent them from disappearing. The initial 3 charge mod rod with no recast time was also infinite mana and the recast time nerfed infinite mana. Recast debuff was added to Donal's BP because you had infinite CHeal chain once you had enough. One of the biggest nerfs/mistakes in a patch was changing aggro to be based on the maximum healing of the spell as opposed to the amount healed making CHeal essentially unusable.
If you want to make a video about nerfs, you should mention things like Manastone and Mod Rods separately or just ignore them because infinite mana simply breaks the game and is unquestionably a fix. Pie Tin could be sold for more than the component cost and failure rate so pottery wheels generated plat, Reagent Conservation worked on Enchant Platinum so chain casting a spell generated plat, using charmed NPCs to transfer No Trade items, being able to loot /traders by using lev to move them to arena and then killing them, immortal Priests because a Death Save and DA was guaranteed to proc or the 100/10 or so weapon in PoSky they never expected anyone to loot most likely aren't really nerfs.
Draught of the Craftsman is discontinued because you could make a tradeskill alt and make a crazy number of combines by only logging them on to do combines (Quaff max 48 combines), Ceremonial Elixir of Scholarship is made No Trade on FV, pets using only the delay and not the damage of weapons they are given and ignore target restrictions on procs (summoned only DD would damage any target), XP methods that vastly exceed anything else possible in game, faction wars, various abilities that allowed killing entire zones, killing trivial adds and kiting a boss, corpse banking for expansion launches, probably aren't really nerfs.
Even something like several classes can't fizzle because of how two separate AA lines added together to set a limit of can't fizzle below 116 spells (55+61) as opposed to after the nerf/fix only having no fizzles below 61 spells or the meaningless until Spell Damage really long recast time of component spells still possibly aren't really nerfs.
A nerf really should only describe a situation when something didn't have to be fixed for basic game balance reasons. You can argue that a Pottery Wheel should be an alternative to killing and looting mobs to gain plat as both require time and maybe double XP potions should have remained extremely common on FV or fizzles should have gone away forever ~15 years ago or that 2500sc and the time investment to get the min skill level to attempt combines as well as Tradeskill Mastery AAs meant you should have been able to make hundreds of combines with no failures but many of the biggest "nerfs" were necessary for the health of the game.
The shaman DoT nerf of about 3 years ago.
Someone said OoW was anti-chanter. No, TSS was anti-chanter. Nothing was mezzable or charmable.
SKs got a massive AE nerf around SoD that killed swarm kiting.
I remember when mod rods were tradeable and had no timer. Mages would make a pile for raids. People could grab one, click 3x, then grab another. This was around SoV. Sony made them AE distributable, lore, and put a timer on reuse.
Around Kunark, SOE massively cranked up healing agro. A cleric casting CH signed his death warrant. Mobs would instantly turn from the tank to the cleric and there was no getting the mob off them. All warriors had back then was taunt. Clerics quit en masse and SOE blinked. They tuned down the agro generated.
Rangers had an admittedly OP AA called Harmonious Arrow. You could pull one mob out of a pile of eight. It was nerfed but too far in the opposite direction and rendered it useless.
Vetrurika's Perserverance and Quiet Prayer shares a timer so its you or someone else that can get mana. So you basically have 2 AA lines doing the same thing just one is targetable.
Nobody remembers cleric smite nerf, that was fun to use for the times it was available. The undead dot that it now does is a fraction of the damage.
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
I also remember using it without warning the tank I was going to do so.
Err, that's not really a nerf. That's correcting a blatant issue. (I know as I'll admit I was one of the ones that reported it to the Devs when a guildie showed it to me).
For me, personally wise, I am still extremely peeved at the cleric mana AA's being linked and want that decision looked at by the Devs. Between quiet miracle/prayer and Veturika's Preserverence being linked, you get to pick which you want which 100% defeated the purpose of VP being created in the first place.
It was done in the sake of 'power' but there were so many other ways to have done it (reduce the mana amount on QM or putting a longer reuse timer OR even make it like respite where you could only receive it if you had combat effects which would have fit with the clerical view). I remember when clerics pitched Elidroth that AA in one of the Dev chats he set up, we specifically asked for it to have 5,000 mana only and the first iteration came out with something like 10-15k.
VP was created as a separate AA to honor an EQ player who, even with her struggles, has been a shining example for the game. So it's 100% a slap in the face that they touched her AA by linking it rather than fix the actual issue which wasn't us giving us mana, but us giving everyone else mana.
You mean when they made shaman DoTs good? That's not a nerf.
Where did everyone get this ridiculous idea that nerfs aren't nerfs if they're in any way rational or justified?
What goes around comes around, cry me a river.
They're still one of the the most, if not the most, played class on live and remain consistently good through all eras of the game no matter your play style. The nerfs didn't effect much in the end.
I thought all nerfs were just changes to something that seemed overpowered.
Oh and thanks for ruining a good time
For me it was the Necro nerf series. I hardly ever play my Necro anymore (MOLO), because of it.
Just my opinion, but that sounds like an exploit. I would argue that the definition of "nerf" should be when they weaken something that was working properly, but they didn't anticipate how players would use it. Then, believing that it was too powerful, they reduced its effectiveness in the name of balance.
Expanding on my previous reply, that disease cloud thing would fit my definition of nerf. Every spell was doing exactly what it was supposed to do, but the result was something that game designers wouldn't want players to be able to do. (Such as pulling a named single when that wouldn't be possible through any accepted mechanic and was designed to be a multi-mob encounter.) Fixing a bug or some other unintended artifact of lag or programming limitation that was allowing players to kill things with no risk is not a nerf. (Again, IMHO)
Oh it was definitely an exploit of mob pathing and zoneload. Beams were working properly but I believe they were unlimited targets and got nerfed down to 8-12 targets. A more seasoned wizard or mage can chime in.
You’re nitpicking here imo. Making something less effective is nerfing it. The motivations and justifications are separate from the fact that it’s now less effective.
Removing the bene was a nerf
Nothing made me happier as a magician than to spend all this time getting levels and AA and gear and learning about my class to be the best magician I could be...
And then be told by a raid leader to do nothing but drop rods on the ground ad nauseum.
That change was made because magicians were not being magicians. It was not a nerf.
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