What phinny should be

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by nostalgicfool, Feb 6, 2016.

  1. Rauven Augur


    I saw queues. And since the hardware and capacity equaled that of RF, it had at LEAST as many as RF. And it sucked all the players out of RF, and still does. With that being said, most were playing one toon versus nearly half playing 6 on Ragefire.

    Population player-wise Phinny beat the pants off of Ragefire. It beat the pants of every TLP server put together before Ragefire. That alone tells Daybreak they were right to do as they did.
  2. Dogdaze New Member

    Phinny's rule set got my $15 bucks and another $15 for my wifes account. I read the original rule set and then she read the rule set and we decided to give it a try. I originally played back when Kunark just came out, I came back just before PoK. She started just after PoK. We have both played on and off over the years, we were there for some expansions and out of game for others. She enjoys me not adding her to my 5 toon box group and I enjoy the nostalgia of almost playing the game I remember(Thank you Devs for keeping the shared bank slots!) The early leveling is a bit rough, other then that we are both enjoying ourselves and we will be paying again. Have fun all, because that's what it's all about =)
  3. Whizbang New Member

    Well, since internet responses always escalate as quick as possible with zero compassion or understanding for other points of view and with responses that range from vitriol to insanity, you were expecting something different? Case and point here, for example :)

    This is more in response to the rest of the thread. EQ2 does the locked encounter thing so it's not just WoW, it kills the dps race and "ks'ing" which is awesome to some people and horrible to others (just like all the other QQ threads, any stance is opinion, it isn't better or worse, it's what you prefer). Much of the raid gear that comes out in later expansions is no-drop so that will come into play eventually. All that being said, I am always the guy who will play the game that the devs release, and like it. If I don't like it, I switch games, no point in whining on the forums. I find these sorts of threads amusing to say the least.
    Hey all, I got an idea, lets release a 4th TLP server this year (that will kill the other 3) because I don't like 1 specific thing about the other 3? Sound like a plan? Cool, lets all go on the forums until they kill the other servers and bow down to us.
    ElaidaTL and Rhiyannon like this.
  4. Drexll Augur


    I solo'd on my nec from 1999 till whenever GoD came out, so it was very much an aspect of EQ. At many level brackets the xp was better than grouping. I also think a thorough understanding of all the intricate necro class mechanics show that the necromancer was designed to be a good soloing class.
  5. Meregil New Member



    I moved to Phini to avoid the boxes. I didn't move because I wanted slower xp.
  6. Rhiyannon Augur

    I'm with meregil... left rage and went to greener less mega-boxed/botted pastures... and now phinny, the slow xp sucks, but I'd rather that than the 30+ box/bot mage armies.
  7. Poydras Augur

    Sounds defeatist. Why take a bath, the world is so dirty you're just going to get dirty again.

    Are you trying to imply my post was an escalation versus the dismissive insults handed out in this thread by the poster I called out? (And supposing it was, so what?) Or are you referring to your own post somehow?
  8. TarewMarrForever Augur


    I agree with all points except the above. The word "ever" is rather strong... ;-)

    Merc's.

    'Nuff said.

    EQ became quite soloing friendly over time for all classes. Now, whether this was out of desire or necessity, that's a solid counter point. ;-)

    But certainly the current classes in TLP are far more solo friendly than they were in '99. On TLP every single class can solo to 50. Easily. It just takes so damned long with some of them, especially on Phiny. But enough Shammie / P2W pots and it's almost tolerable. On RF/LJ, it's not even that painful. I believe the OP's point was it *is* painful on Phinny (at least for now), for no real good reason.

    Of course, the point may be moot if they increase kill xp 2x (shyeah, and monkeys might fly outta my butt!).
  9. TarewMarrForever Augur


    This is exceedingly inaccurate. You seem to think DBG designed Phinny in a vacuum. Hardly.

    Were you not even paying attention for 2 months after RF / LJ launched? Or hell even the month *before* they launched?

    It isn't just about the initial vote. More people CAME AN QUIT RF/LJ than even initially voted. If they had NO VOTE, RF/LJ would have had the SAME DAMNED PROBLEMS because Mgmt at that that time misunderstood their own game and the desires of the Nostalgia / Casual players (ie the *majority*). Their "poll" was a choice between a turd sandwich an a knuckle sandwich. The right things weren't even on the radar. Of course it was flawed.

    The vote was meaningless. The education came within a few weeks of RF/LJ launching (as well the month beforehand) in the way of the TWO HUNDRED+ pages in these very forums with people BEGGING for:

    - expanded instancing (which they did)
    - control over the mage box armies
    - full on raid instancing!!!

    The last two of which, I might add, DOZENS of people told them ahead of time were going to be a problem (as would 6 month classic lockout). I specifically started a thread begging them for raid instancing a MONTH before RF launched!!! At that time, they had neither the resources, nor the leadership buy-in as to how this was the right thing to do. Classic lack of vision.

    To say DBG went out and did Phinny on their own is *laughable*. They did *exactly* what hundreds of people asked them to do, and in doing so WENT AGAINST THE STATEMENTS OF THEIR OWN PRODUCER, because of one big reason: MONEY TALKS!!! It finally became clear to them that raid instancing and controlling the box armies was the recipe to success. Like a 3 year old, they have to get burned by the stove first before they believe it is hot, and that nobody else has a clue, even when DOZENS are saying the same thing an making the same logical points again, and again, and again.

    Thus I find your post personally insulting, because I was one of those making these points, and one of those being ignored, and finally when they listened, instead of *fixing* the two *existing* servers (of which there really should have only ever been 1), they did the money grab instead and launched a 3rd TLP when there is not enough players to support 2 healthy TLP, let alone 3.

    The *only* thing about Phinny that they came up with on their own was the 66% XP nerf. That is *IT*. Whether this was a pot money grab or a delay tactic because they knew instancing was uber-broken, or a bit of both, well never know. But it happened, and it happened with ZERO community recommendation. Oh, it also came with a LOT of appropriate butt-hurt. The one thing that most people list at he top of their list that needs improvement, is the one thing they came up with on their own. Go figure.

    Yet you give them credit for an *awesome* job designing the server....sheesh!

    Thus your general point of your post could not be any more WRONG!!! Phinny is the *ultimate* evidence that when they listen to the vast majority of the community and give then what they want, that you will succeed. IMO, the *one thing* about PHinny that they changed of their own volition (XP rate) in a vacuum is clearly the WORST aspect of the server. You think Phinny is great now, it would have 20% to 30% more players if it had 2x XP (which would *still* be 33% slower than RF/LJ!!!). There would also be at least 50% more alts, which means more grouping at all levels, and more vibrant item economy. A 66% nerf combined with 50% faster unlocks was a window-licking move.

    I do agree though: design by poll is a bad idea. Just as design by committee is bad. What you do is take your best educated shot, and then rapidly ACT on your MAJORITY FEEDBACK before everybody leaves. If you can't do that for resource reasons (or won't do that or ethical / financial reasons), then release another server with the lessons learned, so that you can SERVE YOUR CUSTOMERS!!! That is what they did for Phinny, and that is why it has 2x as many players as RF/LJ *combined* right now!

    But please, don't ever again give DBG credit for doing this when the community begged for it, repeatedly. They were told to do it before RF even launched. Repeatedly. They were *begged* to do it after RF launched (we got lame-o rotations instead). Hell, their own producer said we don't have the right to play the game that way. Equated the *majority* of the paying playerbase to second class citizens. Yet amazingly, a few short months later, we finally got it once RF/LJ revenue started trailing off and they realized that it was a solid path to revenue to add this to anew TLP.

    This is why we'll get another TLP in a half year or so. It's like a casino: legal ability to print money.
    Drexll and Rhiyannon like this.
  10. Rauven Augur


    Still moved didn't you?


    I do give them credit.

    They (989 Studios/Verant/SOE/Daybreak) designed the game in the first place.
    They gave us TLP servers.
    They gave us more TLP servers
    They gave it to us in a way to keep the riffraff out (see signature)
    They gave us what we (the community) wanted, even though we didn't know what we wanted.

    You said the server would be 20-30% bigger. Where are these phantom players? Live? Other games? From what I've seen is players b-tching and moaning for months. Must be on the server and just disgruntled like I said.

    Point is, you don't know what you want, neither does the community. Sit down, shut up, and just play the game. Or make a REAL statement and don't. Actions speak louder than words. Money even more so.

    But you won't. You'll pay, you'll play, and you'll crow on about something else that 'bugs' you. Its the popular thing to do. You'll (and most people here, so don't feel singled out) play 3 hours a day and one hour of complaining so you don't feel like you've 'wasted' the whole four hours on a game you like to play. Most millenials do this in most of the games if not all the games they play.
  11. Rhiyannon Augur

    someone has rose coloured glasses... that are muddy, it's foggy, no moon and after midnight...

    people left rage and lockjaw in droves, because of what it rapidly BECAME... TMF is right, all the changes except the XP were asked for before rage/lock came out... and pleaded for even more after it became the toxic nightmare it was, that drove a lot of us away.

    I strongly dislike the massively nerfed XP, I made my toon for my hubby to raise as I refused to come back... until they announced the XP being raised. in a sense it was like being punished for them having to make a new ruleset... really... "yeah well make the server the filthy casuals want... but we'll make the XP so bad no one will want to play it and prove we were right with ragefire!"

    oops!
    Meregil likes this.
  12. Meregil New Member


    No, that was my point... I moved then stopped playing TLP altogether. Can't stand boxers on RF and can't stand the xp on phini. I'll be one of the 20-30% more players who come back when the xp is made a little more reasonable.
    Rhiyannon likes this.
  13. TarewMarrForever Augur

    Please don't take offense, but did you even read my post, or are you just ignoring the parts that you wish weren't true? ;-)

    The community *did* know what it wanted with regard to what inarguably is the *defining feature* of Phinigel!!!! Heck, the community *told* them before RF even came out. It then *begged* them *after* RF came out, both with their unsubs, and with dozens of pages of posts here.

    Yes, I do give DBG credit for actually LISTENING to this (albeit after they had squeezed out all TLP Krono moneys from RF/LJ), and going with what the community wanted: instanced raids. It would have been a lot more responsive and less greedy of them to add it to RF/LJ instead of opening a new server, but I understand it is a business...even if 3 TLP < SoV is 1-2 too many.

    And now they are relishing in the positive outcome of that decision. Imagine that.

    However, in their defense, they were too busy half-coding TBM for release in order to half-code Instance Raids for release...so given the time separation from when it became CLEAR they needed instanced raids to when they could actually ACT on it was probably several months. Seriously though, given the time delta and that rotations were in effect on RF/LJ, it made logistical sense to release in a new server, and given how broken it (instancing) was, it was a HUGE boon to going this route. Imagine if raid instancing had been released in that form on RF/LJ directly...*shudders*.

    So yes it irks me when people give THEM credit for the DEFINING FEATURE (raid instancing) for what their own damned Producer said 5 months ago shouldn't happen!!! Casuals shouldn't be able to raid Nagafen. We're not strategic enough. These aren't my words. Well, last count nearly *twenty* guilds have downed Nagafen, *most* of them full of *C* *A* *S* *U* *A* *L* *S*!!!!! Nagafen is *tougher* than he was when those words were said, yet casual guilds are still downing him. What is wrong with that? Well now, apparently, nothing, especially if you like *MONEY*!!!

    What changed between then and Phinigel?

    Simple. They realized that the majority of their players actually knew what they wanted, many had left the game after being treated so poorly, and of those that remained, they would GLADLY jump ship to an instanced-raid server, and thus fuel krono sales...again! Either way: more subs, more kronos. Those who had their armies would stay on RF/LJ, because they wouldn't be welcome. Win-win. Again, can't be too upset with the decision: new TLP = new money. Plus, as stated above, clearly raid instancing couldn't be released in the state it was in on RF/LJ... (note: but it could now, and I predict it will be before the next new TLP servre hits).

    That's why another TLP is around the corner, and always will be, from now on until one fails. They are a legal print press for money.

    Point is, despite your two failed attempts now to state otherwise, I *do* know what I want, and I *asked* for this server-focused feature (raid instancing) BEFORE Ragefire went live. So did many others in the community, who now have also been proven *right*!!! We also then begged for it after RF launched, so vocally that the Producer saw fit to acknowledge our logical requests and take a big stinking dump on these requests, in an interview where she very clearly stated that casuals should not raid, and it would be a cold day in Solusek B before casual guilds were raiding Nagafen on their own terms. Yet once the DATA was in to support what people like MYSELF knew was the fact, she reneged, and now we have it, in a new money grab *DESPITE THE FACT* that 3 TLPs in the first two era's is about 2 too many!!!

    Those are the facts of the case. That is historical fact.

    How can you not see this? This is literally how it all unfolded. It's actually quite laughable.

    Regarding your other comment...

    Yes, 20% to 30% larger is a conservative estimate of Phinigel total population. I didn't say 20% to 30% more TOTAL players, yet based on your comments, you seem to assume I did. Once again, you assume wrong. The fact is, many people went BACK to RF/LJ due to too slow XP after trying Phinigel. A few of these even *quit* after liquidating toons and converting to Krono. The later of which is probably just a handful, but the former of which is probably 50-100+ players (so they're still All Access, just not on Phinny)

    So yes, I stand by that estimate of 20% to 30%. If XP had not sucked, RF and LJ would be even *deader* than they are now, and Phinny would be even more vibrant. I'm not saying that is better for the TLP community as a whole (I'm torn on that), I never said that. But I am saying that is what would have taken place. If XP had been the same on Phinny, RF/LJ would be a literal ghost town. Thus, my comment of 20% to 30% more people on Phinny is accurate if the XP had been what everyboy expected prior to launch.

    And yes we would probably have perhaps as many as 5% more total All Access customers if XP hadn't been nerfed without announcement. I personally know of at least 4 who unsubbed All Access after resubbing just for Phinny (their second resubs in 7 months), only to quit (again!) once they realized that the server was schizophrenic as it added the #1 requested casual feature yet required non-casual playtime commitment. I'm one person, and personally know four. That's not good. I would not be surprised if they had a month over month sub churn of 5%.

    Now, had these 4 people known there would be a record-breaking dozen+ double XP days as well as a permanent XP increase near end of era, they may have stayed. Which is the ever-loving point! Both XP actions prove (to me) that in the ONE AREA that DBG made a internal decision that did not come from a SINGLE USER REQUEST (*nobody* requested a 66% XP nerf), they duffed it!!! It is NOT a coincidence that we had a record number of 2x XP days during Phinigel infancy. It is NOT a coincidence it is being increased now.

    People: we had 6x as many TLP double xp days on Phinny in 2 months as we had in the first 6 months on RF/LJ!!!! Read that again and let it sink in: six times as many days in one third the amount of time!!!! If that isn't telling, I don't know what is. Sure, some of it was over holidays, but do no forget July 4th was a holiday xp event as well. The point is, 6x as many in 1/3 the time is a MAJOR increase of 18x as frequent!!! Again, not a coincidence...

    And it was not a surprise! None of it!!!

    I said this the DAY Phinny went live on these very forums. I said it was a win-win situation for Daybreak, as as soon as pot sales drop the unsubs start to climb, they'll increase XP. If the unsubs showed they overshot, they would do this sooner than later. If not, it would happen shortly before Kunark dropped. It's right here in the forums: a win-win move that would be 100% data analytics driven to yield maximum revenue. It's not rocket science. As I said at that time, there are dozens of books an Game Dev articles and GDC lectures on the subject.

    In the end, all I'm saying is that you give far to little credit to the community who demanded this feature MANY MONTHS before we got it, while at the same time giving far too much credit to the company whose own Producer of the game in question publicly *chastised* the original request by literally saying that casuals should not raid Nagafen. Those are the facts of the case, and they are not in dispute.

    I said it before: it is insulting to do so, and reeks of fanboyitis.
    Drexll, Rhiyannon and Meregil like this.
  14. Rauven Augur


    You're going to tell me that Phinigel players. Which makes up a fraction of the EQ playerbase, a sizable one, but still a fraction. Of one game.

    Is responsible for 2x exp on all of DC Universe Online, Planetside 2, and Everquest 2? As well as the rest of Everquest Live? Because each time Phinny had double exp, those games received it too. I know because I missed some of the Phinny events playing the other games.

    That's thinking pretty highly of the Phinny vocal minority.
    code-zero likes this.
  15. Whizbang New Member

    Sorry, that was sarcasm, and a bad attempt. I was mainly referring to the escalation of my comment, dismissive insults in general, and how common they are in internet related chat rooms. I'll climb under the rock now.
    ElaidaTL likes this.
  16. Sygny New Member

    Anyone else remember that the estimated time to level a character in EQ as released was planned for 6 months to a year.

    A wizard beat that by months. I think it was shocking to Verant.
  17. Kahna Augur

    No, but they were the reason why Phinny was included in the double exp, despite the fact that TLP servers are traditionally not included in double exp bonuses. Hence the "And TLP too!" comments posted in the announcements.
  18. Panikker Elder

    Love phini, just wish they do a clone of it to distribute the pop more evenly lol .....exp does not suck ..if you are having fun ...3 weeks and i only have 5 levels to show for it lol .....but having fun exploring lol .
    DB please do another Phini clone ....
  19. Rauven Augur


    Ever since Ragefire, the TLP servers have been included.

    You're going to need harder evidence than that.
  20. jeskola pheerie

    prog p 0rn