What is the difference between a "skilled" player and an "average" player?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Rizzin, Oct 18, 2018.

  1. Yimin Augur

    If you show you want to improve your character this will go along way in the eyes of guild leaders and officers , if you show you want to make those around you better this is also very wise to becoming a better player because raiding in EQ is a team effort , find out all you can about the class you want to raid with , learn what helps those in your group do more dps ,tank or heal better , practice as much as you can on improving your class in pick up raids , groups and solo , as for me if I cant find a group I solo with no merc on my Bst this makes me learn the class inside and out , cause nothing make you use every single trick you got on a toon like soloing with no merc against red or yellow mobs , Sun Tzu said it best ,on deaths ground you will fight like a champion !

  2. Brohg Augur

    Sancus' description of the difference between good & elite is sure a thing, but for the OP? There's a simple metric for average versus good : spell count. 13 / 16 classes have actual number of spells cast to show whether or not they're good. Average players that have never heard of being good at EverQuest (the vast majority, and that's really fine until 50 folks care about their stepping up) will clock in mostly around 9 or 10 spells/minute. Good players will have 15-20, and the next step of casting the right spells & when can then matter. The other 3 classes can easily use proc counts as a proxy for time-on-target to expose the core of what makes one good and another not, but you'll frequently still see for melee folks just plain not-using abilities that are available to them.
  3. Atvar Augur

    Sancus nailed it.

    It's all about knowing why a person/group/raid is doing something, and being able to adjust on the fly. The average to good player follows audio triggers and raid instructions exactly. The exceptional player recognizes when the situation changes and reacts without the need to be told.
  4. Brohg Augur

    Sancus nailed a different question, though. Maybe an important one, but not this one. A raid force will be exceptional if it's filled with a predominance of skilled players. OP's question had to do with what identifies thos; with what differentiates them from a gaggle of 54 enthusiastic logged-ons who can't win things.
  5. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    I don't feel exceptional. I think I'm a good player I guess. I'm a a paladin in the top guild. I don't use audio triggers. I can be lazy (especially when exhausted and on farm targets). But I think I usually step up and feel like I play very well in the hardest situations (new content, low numbers, etc). I don't play near as much as I used to (I spent a decade averaging 10 hours a day, for example, now I doubt I play 10 hours a week on average and it took me like 8 months to max aa this year, since I didn't try at all after the first couple K maxed anything I cared about in the first couple weeks).

    I don't even use audio triggers, at all. I don't care about min/maxing anymore, but that is a consequence of the math being obvious to me (the difference between your effectiveness with a few more ac, a few more heroics, a few more ranks of heroic aa, etc, is not even parseable, its fluff at this point, base gear is just too inflated).

    But saying all that, I see a huge difference between myself and most "non-elite" paladins I talk to. I don't know if its a matter of attrition taking so many of the best players away that we're left as the best of what's left versus the best of the best, or what. I kind of feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog's Day, where he is in the diner talking to the love interest, and he goes "I am a god", and says, "maybe god is just someone who has been around so long he knows everything".

    Because while I may be mistaken in my memory sometimes, or missed a small change at some point, I have simply been around for almost 20 years and read and seen so much about this game that it is all second nature to me to the point of I can take 30 seconds and determine if something (for my class) is useful, useless, meh, or awesome. I don't need to parse it, I just know it.

    Dunno. Most people left playing this game are either dumb, lazy, or just don't care, and that's the problem.
    a_librarian likes this.
  6. Scornfire The Nimbus Prince

    We're drunk too, don't forget drunk
    eqgamer likes this.
  7. Drogba Augur

    Sancus and Brohg like this.
  8. Bigfan Augur

    What I found that helped me improve, always strive to be better, never be content with stagnation, watch what others do and try to be better.

    When servers constantly had pickup groups, I always tried to find a group, even though I was a raider, I never allowed myself to slack, and watched what random pickup group people did, if they did something interesting, I would then adapt my style of play to add that to my skill set.

    What also helped me, play other classes, find what their skills do and how they can help your main.

    As a main bard, I have now played every class, I know how to enhance their dps, tanking, healing while keeping my dps at a fair level.

    But as a side benefit, I now know how to play many classes at a high level.

    Never think you know everything, always strive to improve.

    Eq is reaction dependant for top level dps, if you have slow reaction times, you will not improve. But,there is some classes that require less reaction skill than others, melee dps is one that requires the most as they have to stay in range, casters though to keep on top of things, do not have to monitor their range and what surrounds them as much.

    Not saying casters are easy, just they are able to focus on a better weave of spells, and once you have that, you will be better.
  9. Nennius Curmudgeon

    I occasionally forget to floss too. I am so ashamed.
    Caell likes this.
  10. Tucoh Augur

    I feel like this is a more interesting delineation than good vs average. I've always thought that within the context of PvE raiding what separates good vs exceptional raiders is how long it takes for a player to play properly when learning a new encounter and how good they are when stuff goes pear-shaped.

    At the top end just about everyone is "good" or better, but the exceptional players will see an encounter (or a new phase in one being progressed) a couple times and then start to hit their DPS rotations, avoid the bad , lock down their targets, keep their healed and do whatever monkey dance the encounter has. Then the raid has to wait for the rest of the force to sloooowwwwlllllyyyy start to do all those things, wipe after wipe after wipe. And some people who are normally OK will have "bad encounters" that they just struggle with some stupid mechanic.

    Two months after getting an encounter on farm status the difference between good and exceptional becomes much smaller. Until something happens to cause chaos and you have to hope that you've got enough exceptional players to carry the good ones to victory without having to wipe and just hope things are clean enough for the good players to do their job.

    That being said, I'll take a drama free raider who shows up consistently and will slowly learn their job over a hot-shot drama queen or a top-shelf gamer who shows up for a couple months of new content and then moves on to go dominate a new game. There's a long time between EQ content releases and that dependable potato whose has 95% 6month attendance in August earned the help and patience he received when progressing through new content.
  11. Aurmoon Augur

    Some really interesting comments. I think what makes a player exceptional is someone who is very aware of the environment and what is happening or going to happen. They see a situation and react, either preventing disaster or recovering from it. Some examples:

    The tank notices a healer is standing on top of the spawn point for the next wave of adds. Tank runs over and readies himself to AE aggro the moment the mobs pop. Healer never even knows what happened.

    Mob is on the loose ramping through casters. Ranger notices and punts the mob away, parking it safely or kiting it towards the tanks. Or maybe the mage notices and sends its pet to offtank until things are under control. Maybe a cleric notices what the mage is doing, targets the mob, types /assist and starts spamming the pet to keep it alive while the rest of the raid catches up. For guilds that are struggling through content, these sorts of things are commonplace and most folks don’t even know they are happening.

    The other thing that exceptional players do is continue to contribute maximum efficiency while following the requirements of an event. This is particularly true of melee characters. It is pretty easy to follow any event mechanics if that’s where you focus all your effort. What is difficult is to expend the minimal amount of effort necessary to follow mechanics in order to maximize your contributions.
    Mintalie likes this.
  12. segap Augur

    This isn't that difficult of a game. Being good just requires trying. People that show up just to socialize and occasionally press buttons won't be good. People that actually put forth some semblance of effort and paying attention should be able to be good. Good mostly requires you know which buttons to press and keep pressing them. You don't need to optimize for every scenario, but use the ones that almost always get you 90% of the way there. Sadly, many people can't reach this threshold.

    Many have commented on what makes people better than good and exceptional. It's taking time to learn the mechanics of the game and how best to use to your advantage (without overt exploitation). Learning class interactions. Learning stacking. Having situational awareness to alter the 90% best fit strategy to occasional press different buttons. Not just wanting to have someone tell you what to do, but to know why. To question that why and try different things yourself. Simple things like looking at patch notes to make tweaks for changes (it's baffling to see people login to raid days after a patch and ask in guild why such and such button doesn't work any more). Knowledge is a big part of this game. It doesn't take a lot of time. Just the desire to absorb it.
  13. Cailen Augur

    Parse yourself and others compare and dive into the information to see where you stand and or can improve. The best way to become exceptional is through parsing. At least for dps.
    Metanis likes this.
  14. segap Augur

    I've seen people win parses by staying on hitpoint locked bosses to maximize their time on target rather than chasing adds. A nice big number, but little actual contribution to the raid force. Pareses are but one tool.
    svann likes this.
  15. Cicelee Augur

    If there is anything I have learned in my 18 years as a magician is this...

    If you are a magician named Sancus, you are "exceptional".

    If you are a magician not named Sancus, you are "average".

    Pretty cut and dry...
    Tolzol, Sheex, Mintalie and 2 others like this.
  16. Brohg Augur

    waitwait, I know this one!

    [IMG][IMG]via Imgflip Meme Generator
    Cicelee, Warpeace, Mintalie and 3 others like this.
  17. Koryu Professional Roadkill

    This could use an elemental pet photoshopped into the background, and a mod rod instead of a coffee mug.
    Mintalie and Sancus like this.
  18. segap Augur

  19. Brohg Augur

    Obviously gotta save up the modrods and earth pets for important mage raiding, not forum-questing
    IblisTheMage and Sancus like this.
  20. Nennius Curmudgeon

    Bah, Iron rations FTW. If they are anything like MRE's, Brell help him.