What Guild Will Be The First......

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Blankslate, Nov 29, 2015.

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  1. Blankslate Elder

    1. To beat TBM.
    and
    2. What date will they beat it by?
  2. Khat_Nip Augur

    The title of your post...
    had enough room...
    to include your...
    entire question.
  3. Riou Augur

    If no bugs prevent them from winning I think it is around Christmas time?
  4. Repthor Augur

    i think "Broken Shards of Glas" is gonna beat the expansion first and they will do it dispite of impossible to win bugs and mecanics. and they gonna do it on Christmas Eve
  5. Vazuvius Augur

  6. Warpeace Augur

    That's just Tier 1.
  7. Cicelee Augur

    I am rooting for Slap Happy Gnomes on the Ragefire server myself...
  8. Silv Augur

    This is a troll post right? :confused:

    ^This. If the top guilds kill all 4 events every time the lockout is up it would be the week of Christmas.
  9. Zunnoab Augur

    Yeah even with insane tuning the top guilds will beat it as fast as the flagging mechanism allows. I am not saying the tuning is insane mind you, but I'm saying nothing will stop them short of impossible tuning. What is horribly hard for the average guild is trivial to them, by their structure and standards... which is why sometimes you'll see a small handful of their members mock feedback about difficulty, since they see the content only through the lens of very highly skilled players. That is neither a criticism of the top guilds nor a criticism to less exclusive guild rosters. Lower tier guilds still have some players good enough to be in the top guilds after all. It's more the sheer concentration of organization and demand for that skill that makes it so nothing short of nearly impossible will challenge them.
    Silentchaos, Elricvonclief and RPoo like this.
  10. Atvar Augur

    The problem with tuning is there's not such thing as needing to gear up in the expansion anymore. If you raided arx and have your 105aa banked at the start, you have all you need to clear the next expansion. It takes a lot of dev time and creativity to come up with difficult raids in spite of that, which they obviously don't have. Here's to hoping the final tiers of raids have something more to offer than what we've seen so far.
  11. Shredd Augur

    I found the 4th raid in TBM to be challenging and for Ring of Valor to be the 5th guild to win this raid in the game, even though we just raid Sunday , Monday, and Wednesday shows that you can raid current and have a real life too.
    www.ringofvalor.org
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  12. Flutegirl Journeyman

    Congrats on 5th so far. You guys finished TDS 3rd tho?...so are you slippin ? :) /hides
  13. Zunnoab Augur

    The devs admitted years ago strict tuning around gear just plain doesn't work too. I wish I could cite the post. Consistently when they have tried to strictly tune around gear like that it was a mess though, for many reasons ranging from the fact that raid forces vary in composition too much (see the mess that was Sisters in Solteris with people suggesting people magically recruit to replace people in their raids to bulk up on DPS potential, then some of the forces that found that to be trivial having a heck of a time with Balreth and Commodus' tanking requirements). I admit TSS having a laughable weapon drop rate probably scewed the Sisters situation though.

    Then there is the fact that other than the strongest raid forces, rosters are not totally static and can vary quite a bit, meaning homogeneous gearing for the entire force simply doesn't happen. It becomes a matter of enough being geared enough to progress forward, and even if tuning around a specific gear level were possible (which it isn't without excluding a huge chunk of the active raiders), that non-homogeneous gearing would ensure it would be impossible to reach those "just right" levels of gear. There's the good old "gear all your tanks first" suggestion, which isn't realistic for most forces considering it just means people can use you to gear up for other guilds/forces, or all that gear is lost when someone quits or leaves considering those geared tanks are then expected to stick around despite being finished with gearing long before others. It's a heck of a barrier to recruitment too, even if it's a logical gearing strategy. It was just an example of why even if they were staffed that could not work though.

    In order for that to work for the bulk of the players the gear difference between tiers would have to skyrocket much more quickly than it does now, and even then those efficient raid forces would be able to afford to gear just the tanks, get just the foci needed on just the right people, etc. to circumvent the intended "gear checks." The sheer difference in HP/AC/foci. would have to be large enough to prevent simply gearing just the right people from being effective, and AEs and such would have to be far harsher. Of course when the itemization necessitates farming every single raid to get access to all slots of gear, that goes out the window too. Gearing does matter of course, but stuff can only be tuned in a manner that targets a level of gear in which a majority will have a tough time pushing forward without it. With the slight differences in gear (relatively speaking) the last few years, it's just not possible.

    Man I'm sorry I'm rambling way more than I intended, but it's all part of addressing this point that I'm coming to: In order for that kind of gearing to work, there has to be far more content released far more quickly than what happens now. One expansion a year a fraction of the size of old ones doesn't support progression like that. It's why I keep on mourning the loss of staggered content releases like in RoF and UF, because staggered content is the only way to keep new stuff around over the course of the year. Short of enormous time sinks, nothing else will slow down the strongest, I suspect.
  14. Mintalie Augur

    True.

    Even impossible tuning rarely stops them.

    There is nothing trivial about it, and the amount of preparation and work that goes into beating these encounters is staggering.

    The race is far from over...
    Elricvonclief, plobb and RPoo like this.
  15. Kearstin Elder

    plane of war, tita's ghost - the devs know they can't make genuinely hard raids because it's just not worth the dev time to create raids so few guilds will even attempt

    "nothing will stop them" is a complete lie, make genuinely difficult content and many "top guilds" won't touch it with a 10' pole. just finished beating arx1, there is this really hard raid that you can only attempt once so can't possibly be much of a time investment and you're not yet flagged for arx2+ and "top guilds" would gate out because they have absolutely no desire for challenge, they only enjoy easy raids and complaining on the forums that raids are too easy
  16. Bandien Elder

    Please elaborate. Which "top guilds"(your words) didn't attempt the one-offs in Arx and didn't attempt PoW? I think you are mistaking attempting with beating. I know mid tier guilds that attempted these weekly, as well as top tier. Very few beat it before nerfed, many gave up pre-nerf (both first arx one off and PoW). Your statement doesn't make any sense and it appears you are the only one complaining on this thread.
    Mintalie likes this.
  17. Kiillz Augur

    really bothers me when someone thinks beating these raids are trivial for what they consider the "top" guilds. As Mintalie eloquently stated the amount of preparation, strat making, changing and redoing and hitting the targets as fast and furious as you can, being up somewhat late to do it etc is mind boggling.

    its like anything else in life to a degree...you get out of it what you put in to it. you cant beat these raids if you dont raid them enough, half **** them, dont show up for them on your targetted raid nites etc.
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  18. Kearstin Elder

    http://dkp.sodeq.org/viewnews.php - powar came out apr 2, sod first beat arx1 on oct 30

    Anyhow, back to PoWar, we visited it on Monday (aug 11, 2014), and got a strategy down to win the event next time we visited the zone (aug 13, 2014).

    Update: Ghost down on 16th Feb 2015, after 4 attempts on it for the past few weeks in time for the incoming nerf to the event.

    http://il-guild.com/dkp/viewevent.php?s=9feef1cf32cdf515249c28eef353ec75&e=14 - yes it was attempted by some guilds

    attempts after the first three arx1 wins and then not again until jan22 but that still puts them ahead of the curve to "waste" that time on 3 early attempts
  19. Bandien Elder

    Alright, so based on your evidence here you contradict what you stated in your first post, so again I ask to elaborate. Based on the two links (guild front pages aren't great resources for what they do weekly, but anyways) you agree with me that people had attempted (and WON!!!) them since they were released.

    The argument doesn't hold much weight on PoW. To answer the question, "Why not?". Well, simply put, it was an anniversary event that had a 6 week window. Dzarn made the event (as well as the zone) exceptionally hard. No one beat it in this 6 week window and they made the decision to keep it open and challenging, only to break it's legs (twice iirc) so the event became a lot less challenging.

    By the way, this thread was about progression raids, and all the raids you mentioned are non-progression raids.
  20. Kearstin Elder

    It's non-progression
    (Doesn't matter, it's a raid)
    Dzarn made us cry the whole time
    (Doesn't matter, it's a raid)
    It was originally a six week window
    (Doesn't matter, it's a raid)
    It later got it's legs broken
    (Still counts)

    the argument was "top guilds will beat it as fast as the flagging mechanism allows" so i pointed out two fairly recent raids where this wasn't true. powar as of june 23, 2014 was definitely in a functioning and beatable state. the devs had designed and implemented a raid that the challenge was difficulty and not flagging and yet it would be a long while and a major nerf before any other guild beat the event

    and then again with tita's ghost with a wide assortment but small quantity of guilds beating the event and various discussions about what is a "legit" win and a number of "top guilds" making few or no attempts to beat the event "legit" or even at all

    Zunnoab makes a false statement claiming this is on the devs who lack the ability to make challenging raids and i reply that it's on the "top guilds" who won't even attempt challenging raids the devs are clearly capable of creating so the devs are forced to make stuff that "top guilds" can rush through and then complain about how the raids are easy and boring

    1, 3, 6, 10 or whatever number of top guilds will actually attempt really hard raids frequently, in the case of powar i think it's only 1 guild with a significant quantity of attempts in the first 3 months the content was available but freely admit that other guilds could have been attempting it often but felt no urge to publicly share information about how often they were attempting powar in apr-june 2014 so i used the word "few"
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