What changes after PoP to make chanters not as overpowered?

I was able to level a enchanter from 65 to 70 in the plane of fire in 4 hours soloing the the entrance field, I used LOD and it was XP bonus weekend.

If you charm a pet, and tash a mob and pull it to the wall, with a hasted pet and slowed mob it will murder stuff for you. When you get to the wall ROOT the mob you just pulled and slow it. With sow pots you can easily outrun anything that resists.

When your pet is almost dead, you can either A, cast invis break it and kill it for xp, or B, cast invis, mez it and than memblur it to let it regen to full and recharm and keep killing.

Some mobs are immune to root, easy fix, mez them, slow them and wake with low agro and sic pet on them.

If done correctly, its very little risk because you can outrun everything. However having a spell haste item will make your life much easier. Buy some heal over time potions, you will make way more money than they cost when killing in Field 1.

It's pretty easy, I was able to play while watching a movie while my pet killed stuff, just make a audio trigger for pet charm break, and be ready to run if you need. Keep your self AA rune up all the time, and be ready to hit your AA rune or even doppleganger.

Get to lvl 70 in PoFire and than buy some runes to get your mez/charm spells that make your class. You will probly make enough in PoFire to buy most of them.

I like how the debate about Enchanter power still relies on people using PoP as their base of argument.

I would like to add in the seemingly singular focus on the solo game play in order to progress. My original observations were mostly how how I felt useless and very underpowered in a group situation because none of my mez'es or stuns worked and I wasn't even able to charm a pet to compensate by at least being able to add significant dps to the group.

I know I can solo. There are tons and tons of places a Chanter can solo and progress even some places back in Kunark where Charming a Mob isn't such a dangerous undertaking. However while I enjoy being able to solo if and when I get the urge, about 85% of the reason I rolled a chanter was because of its group desirability. Before rolling a Chanter, I knew that Charm would be getting nerfed heavily around the current content on Selo, how could you not know considering all the controversy around it? What I didn't expect was to lose my ability to offer effective crowd control in groups since that is supposed to be the specific role that Enchanters are masters of.

That took me as a shock. For a while there I couldn't figure out why suddenly I couldn't get a group for the life of me. I remember just recently spending 5 hours straight one weekend shouting LFG and getting no takers, until finally someone invited me. Within about 5 minutes of joining the group I realized several things. One, the entire group had already been buffed with mana regen. Two, my mez level limit was too low for the MoBs we were fighting. Three, the mobs were stun immune. Four, my charm level limit was too low to charm any of the mobs we were fighting. Five, as soon as I cast Tash and Slow, my aggro was so high that even adding my DoT was enough to get the full attention of the MoB. So what was left for me to do. Tash, Slow, Haste and the tiny amount of DPS my animation outputted, that was it. Oh and on the Slow and Haste point. They didn't even really need me for that since they had a Shaman who could also effectively DPS and also added Heals and other significant buffs to the party. I guess I did enable the Shaman to do a bit more DPS since he didn't have to slow and haste so there is that I guess. Point is, I fully understood why I wasn't wanted in groups.

So all I can say, is take Charms out of the equations, act like they don't exist and consider the group, not the solo experience. Then look at the Chanter from about level 58-to at least 66 and I expect even a bit higher and tell me that the Chanter class isn't a major disappointment during this period with this content.

Level 70 is just a rough period for chanters in the group game. The complaining on the chanter forums during OOW through POR on live made even the whiniest manglerite crybabies of today look stoic by comparison.

It gets better though, a lot better. Gotta either stick it out, or class switch, because for better or worse TLPs bring back the balance issues from each era.

So because your not max level yet and missing your key class spells, you than joined a group killing lvl 70+ content and you feel weak? I would too.

You need to go look up what spells you can buy in the bazzar from muramite runes, or farm some runes yourself. You can buy the charm and mez from baz, the charm works up to lvl 67, and the mez lands on mobs up to 70, you also can get single target clarity and haste.

After you get these spells, life gets much easier to do the higher level content. However, the days of charm DPS owning everything are over. The play style you might be use to isn't really possible in the high end OOW zones. You are mostly a CC/Support class, not so much DPS any more. Also in the days of earlier POP, it was the same thing, you could not do anything till you got some spell drops because your old spells didn't land, same thing again with OOW.

I would recommend just soloing a couple hours in PoFire to get to lvl 70 and than use the money you make to buy the important muramite runes. Or atleast when you are LFG, solo in PoFire to make xp. Getting 70 is pretty important for OOW, mobs are very resistant and the old spells wont work. After you get your mez/charm/crack spells and lvl 70, getting groups will be much easier, because you will be useful than.

Here is the thing. I have a level 66 Mage as well and he has no issues contributing on these same mobs because his spells don't have level limits. I run into resists now and then but I can debuff those resists and still get most spells to land and my pet is still pumping out damage without issue. I would even go as far as saying that a tank can still take even if they only have a rusty sword. Nothing a Chanter can do is going to make a mez land on a level 68 mob if your max mez spell stops working at level 67.

Honestly it is pretty obvious it is a design flaw in the class and not some intentional screw over by the devs, at least when it comes to a chanters tool set. I just don't think the Devs ever thought any party would be engaging primarily reds at these levels but with the power creep that has happened plus new expansions being piled on, groups can generally tackle content they couldn't back in the day. I seem to recall even a full party would shy away from yellow cons and generally only engaged dark blue back 15-20 years ago. Today, it seems a waste to be engaging mobs 3-5 levels lower than you. So honestly, back in the day, Chanters wouldn't have to worry about their tools not working due to to the level of mobs they were engaging as part of the basic leveling process.

Anyway, the whole point of my post was to discuss the speed bump (mountain) Chanters experience mostly to inform those like me who were interested in main'ing a chanter but might never have played on during these expansions. On Selo, right now you can expect chanters to be in a really bad place from about 56 though maybe 68-70 but as I mentioned a couple times now, I think once you get to level 70 and acquire your spells they will smooth out. However, if your not aware of this, your probably going to get very frustrated when your Chanter dramatically and quickly goes from being powerful, fun and useful to can't do much of anything in 0.0001 second flat.

This is just not the case.

Your 66 mage is doing a tiny fraction of the DPS that a 70 dps toon would do to level 68 mobs. In part due to higher partial resists, in part due to greater melee mitigation of the pet based on the level difference, and in large part because you don't have the spells, skills or aa's to dps effectively.

Even more so, a tank with a rusty sword would be completely useless. He will not be able to hit the mob, so will not be able to generate any aggro, and if the rest of his gear is similarly poor he would not be able to survive a round anyway.

Edit to add--and no, it is not a design flaw. Or rather, it's one they consistently made over the course of many, many years if so. Every mez spell in the game has a level limit, and every single expansion has mobs that are above that level limit when you are below level for the cap. Most expansions have mobs that are above the level limit even for the highest level current era mez. It's a deliberate design choice.

Again, a bunch of comments from a person so used to playing a class more powerful than an entire group who can’t contemplate not playing the game in god mode. The concept is so foreign he can’t even understand how it’s possible not to be in god mode the moment the level cap increases and he dings 66 after a single kill. Anything less than complete god mode in every play style (solo, group and raid) is intolerable game play mechanics.

We just killed OMM, the final boss in OoW. The 2 chanter charm pets were almost as much dps as the rest of the raid combined. I think chanters are still just fine, even in OoW...their supposed “low point”.

To be honest it doesn't sound like your too familiar with playing a Chanter, rather your perspective seems to be coming from someone who thinks they know what they are talking about and have made broad sweeping judgments about the class based on the same singular focus as your earlier comments, charming.

I mean everything you complain about revolves around what the charm pet can do. All I hear is, "Its not fair that a Chanter charmed pet allows them to solo." "Its not fair that a Chanter's charm pet allows them do good DPS in raids." "it is not fair that a Chanter's charm pet make them in high demand for a group".

Take the Charm out of you argument because since I started commenting, I have been talking about the core mechanics behind the Chanter, namely its crowd control abilities, at around level 60 as where Chanters have issues in the current Selo content.

Also have you ever asked yourself why such a powerful class as a Chanter is very seldom ever played as a Main? I mean sure you see tons of them now but 99% of them are a box or an alt, used to farm old world content as a means to finance their main. However, rarely are they someone's main character. This is because they are so damn hard to play. You pay a huge price in order to get that "god mode" you seem to think Enchanters enjoy. When soloing, it takes the smallest thing not going right to kill you. When grouping, if you use a Charm, one moment of inattention is all it takes to wipe out your party. You can't even take a leak when your charming on a Chanter and even if your not charming, all it takes is one simple mistake, one mez resist, to cause a wipe. Oh and sure, you might be able to solo a named deep in a dungeon, but doing this took two hours of intense preparation, and this is after spending an hour or so fighting your way down to his spawn. This is why you don't see a ton of Chanter mains, because they are just a solid Bit**ch to play and even if they do main a Chanter, chances are they not engaging in meticulous, mind draining, nerve wracking activities that people like you always point to when saying Chanters are "godmode". Point is, even in "godmode" not everything is even remotely as rosy as you think it is in Enchanter land and even less so when suddenly your entire toolset, everything that defines a Chanter as a Chanter, stops working or being valuable to a group.

Thanks for the lesson, but I’ve mained a chanter on 2 TLPs. Chanters quit because they lose god mode, and playing god mode is why it was fun.

And no, charming isn’t that hard. Stop trying to make yourself look like an all star player because you can recharm a mob and juggle 4-5 other spells.

The fact you stated chanters are amazing for solo group and raid play pretty much proves my point. Or am I missing some other type of gameplay?

In the end it doesn’t matter. Folks are going to complain about chanters being too powerful, and chanters are going to bend over backwards trying to prove they aren’t.

Except I honestly don't see the god mode your talking about, certainly not coming from your run of the mill chanter.

For the group game, they are certainly no more OP'ed than the Cleric. Group content doesn't need a Cleric, a Shaman or a Druid will do, but adding a Cleric to the group trivializes most group content, same way a Chanters mez can do. But no one complains about the Cleric so what is the problem with a chanter or any other class for that matter being good in a group?

Raiding also REQUIRES a Cleric. No other class will do. If there is no a cleric, the raid doesn't happen while you can probably get by if you have to without a Chanter. In fact, aside from buffing Mana regen, what does a Chanter bring that makes them a god in all Raids. I would go as far as saying, Chanters are more of a "handy to have" rather then "god" when it comes to raiding and you rarely need more than 1 or 2.

As far as Solo, Necros hands down have the best soloing tools. The have superior mana regen, superior mana efficiency, snares, roots, Feign Death and a usable pet that doesn't try to kill them every 7 or less minutes. Why is it ok for a Necro to be good at Solo but not a Chanter?

As far as godmode solo, I watched a youtube video doing some godmode solo. The video was 2.5 hours long as he demonstrated each step of preparation he had to go through to get a crack at soloing the placeholder MoB and then what he had to do to keep things under control so that he could actually camp the placeholder. It was amazing.....until you stop to consider that it took him 2.5 hours of meticulous preparation that almost fell completely apart at least 3-4 times due to Pacify resists and bad respawns and this was AFTER he had made his way down to the spawn area. Only god knows how long that took. A full party doing this could have smashed through all the mobs in the room in under 10 minutes and had zero issues keeping the room clear in order to camp the placehold and they wouldn't have had to rely on everything going exactly as planned to do it. So yeah, he performed a feat only a group could accomplish but I fail to see how taking 2.5 hours to do what a party could do in 15 minutes makes him OP.

So yeah, with Charms, I can see the issue. Past 60 the Mobs scale exponentially, not linearly and being able to Charm a full power level 65-70 Mob is a bit ridiculous from the DPS output but for the rest of a chanters tool set, I haven't seen anything that makes them more OP or godmode than many other classes in the game which tends to make the complaints against them seem petty jealousy coming form people who don't understand what they are seeing.

Lastly, to a degree, you may be right about why people quit playing chanter. Their tool set is what makes them fun to play. Being able to charm, mez, stun, etc is what makes all hassle required to play them worth the effort. Once that is gone, the hassle just becomes a hassle. Who in their right mind wants to play a class that isn't fun. But lets be honest here, if you took away the mages pet, or drastically reduced the healing capability of the cleric or dramatically reduced the hate generation ability of a SK, they would be pretty un-fun to play as well. The only difference is those tools weren't removed from those classes, with Chanters that is not the case. So yeah, your right, take away the fun and people will quit the class.

i mean wouldn't call chanters "handy". they're still requisite in raiding. you don't need 6 of them like warriors/clerics, but if you don't have a couple enchanters, you're gonna have a really rough time. they aren't like rogues/necromancers, where you can literally jettison them from your roster for like, the entire lvl 70 expansion set, and be completely fine

Yeah, I'm not sure what you raid but Enchanters are definitely needed/super helpful on some raids.