we need a raid only TLP, all characters would be instant level cap

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Evertrek, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. BigDog Elder



    Change your name to Shortbus.
  2. Rauven Augur

    When you have an end-game, it actually makes no sense to have leveling content. For example if your max level is 50.. that means you have 49 levels of fluff content. You need Writers for all the quests, lore, and dialogue for all that content. Then you have to make a decision. Balance the content at those levels, or just let it be easy for some, hard for others, or some variant inbetween.

    That's alot of effort to make the game have an artificial timesink.

    Now lets use EQ in our level-less game example. Think of all the camps, named, and quests througout classic EQ. Imagine instead of gaining exp, there was no levels. Everything was 50, from the orcs in commonlands, to the undead in Befallen and Unrest, to the goblins and kobolds in Solesuk Eye and Nagafen's Lair.

    Now take those quests, named, and camps, and spend time balancing them around 50 content requiring 1, 2, 3, 4, or 12 groups.

    Instead of progressing through the zones based on your exp and level. You did so based on the gear you obtained. Its a gear grind instead of a level grind. Its effectively the same game at the end of the day. However, earlier content might still be relevant if you're missing a few pieces yet.

    Now lets look at Kunark. They decided to add a unique race with its own leveling content. So they went out and did 1-50 again.. while at the same time doing 51-60. Then yet another endgame. Imagine again a game where its expansion spent time on just more endgame stuff to do instead of leveling content 80% of the player base (at the time) will not do, and will likely skip.

    And those who do this doubled 1-50 content are going to try and breeze their way through as soon as possible. And here we are, 16 years later, skipping through it ASAP. You don't need to look far to see the complaints about this in a 50+ page thread.

    Now Velious.. good start.. don't bother with 1-50 content. Its an end-level expansion. But.. they did a 20-60 game in it which was weird. I assume it was to cover some hell level gaps here and there. Spread out the leveling a bit. But again.. imagine if that 20-59 content was 60* relevant? You could go to Crystal Caverns and get 60 gear to help with ToFS. Both zones being endgame.

    *actually 50 equivelent since we're not needing levels.

    And so forth. Look at all the time, money, resources, and effort of all that leveling content that could have just been made relevant for 'endgame'. Simply by starting people there.

    Oh well it can't be done right? Funny thing about that. Something similar is done in DC Universe Online, another Daybreak game. You have 30 as max level. And then a Challenge Rating which is determined from gear. CR 35 is equivalent in power to a 30 plus 5, or 35. Max CR in the game is 152.

    Level 1-30 is like a intro story tutorial. But in reality it isn't really needed either.

    Another game that does levels differently is Planetside 2. They're called Battle Ranks and these go up to 120. But what do they do? They unlock character slots, loadout slots, and titles. They don't actually give you any stats. A BR1 has the same HP as a BR120. In fact a BR1 can easily kill a BR120. The only advantage a higher BR might have is experience. Assuming the lower BR isn't an alt.

    The thing to take away from this is.. what use is levels? I've been told its to give players a timesink. A reason to spend money. I think that's both cynical and BS. I think its a remnant of both Table Top RPGs and jRPGs. Its holding developers back. 50 levels is alot of fluff content that will quickly become irrelevant in a few days or weeks at most for most players.

    Is it too late to change Everquest? Christ.. its a 17 year old game. Of course its too late. But its something to consider when making future games. Not just for Daybreak, but other Companies, Corporations, and so forth. Save your money, time, and resources. Get players right into the 'Real Game' and give them tons of content to work with.

    Heck you might even be able to have so much content with this method that you don't need lockouts. You run the risk of giving players so much stuff that there's simply not enough time in the day or week to hit it all up.

    That's a good thing. Players don't get bored as easily. Players aren't as unhappy. And it took less effort to pull off. Essentially anyway. You do have to be clever with the progression. But that's why development groups get paid, to figure stuff like that out.
    Zuleyin likes this.
  3. Nolrog Augur

    /facepalm
  4. Batbener Augur

    If you don't want to enjoy the journey, just go make a level 85 heroic on live and kill all the raids you want. They even have a thing called shrouds if you are that interested in doing it "level appropriate".

    As for the poster claiming TLPs have ruined live, have they ruined it, or did they just make you have to adjust your tactics, like thousands of changes over the years? When I last played on live, mages were beaming entire zones, using the lag of pulling the entire zone to their advantage, and literally killing hundreds of light blue mobs. SKs were swarm kiting and you call TLPS "easy mode"...
  5. Evertrek Augur


    almost TL;DR but i did and you have some interesting ideas. for the rest of the critics here, look up the books on classic end-games. some like the journey but most like the end-game. as with the other TLPs, anyone that needs to level for it to be fun, just play live or one of the other flavor of TLPs.
  6. Rauven Augur

    Journey can be fun. On Ragefire and Phinigel I had a blast. I really can honestly say I did. Point I was making, is the journey is only fun once. Maybe again later for nostalgia's sake. And only if their is someone to share it with.

    Login a live server. You can't get the same experience 1-50. Only a brand new TLP server gives you that. Why is that? Because the population is top heavy. You know what game's population isn't top heavy? Planetside 2's. BR 1s play, group, and compete against the whole gamut.

    DCUO is the same way. You'll likely see high CR's in your duos and group runs because they are looking for styles and still get some marks of victory if they're under a certain threshhold.

    Once the majority get to high levels which will happen, even on the TLP servers. The fun journey becomes lonely and desolate. That's a shame.

    Why is that? As I explained in my post above. Because a group of devs, artsists, and writers spent time on it. Time that is wasted unless they launch a TLP once in a while.

    Time that could be spent on the 'endgame' that remains relevant throughout the life of the game. How to make it relevant isn't totally easy (well it is, think fabled as a first step). But its not wasted time.

    Think about it this way. Imagine Plane of War or Life/Unlife gets you some gear and you've reached the 'pinnacle' of your gear level. Now they slap in a expedition to Nagafen that requires that gear and new mechanics.

    Old content can become new content (if done sparingly).



    I should stress that my idea wouldn't work for a TLP. I'm just posting it to get people to think outside the box for future discussions in possibly other games. What I suggested can't fly in EQ because it's a major change that would affect the live servers.

    In fact, IFF (two Fs on purpose) the live servers were targeted directly for such a change, then only then would the TLP servers see it. Course.. all of them would. But again the likelihood of EQ seeing this is less than me getting that powerball.
  7. Asheran Augur

    They did something like this in the past, with the Mayong server: https://www.everquest.com/news/imported-eq-enus-51535

    It wasn't instant max level, as I believe it was a standard server where everyone just started at lvl 51 with 50 AA, but it was still interesting. It would be cool to see one that started in like Velious with lvl 60 characters (or even 51 characters), or Luclin with nearly-full Mayong rules (minus the Defiant).
  8. Rhiyannon Augur

    it's pretty simple... you don't want to do the grind, then don't start again on a new server. you knew the rules when you started so don't ask for basically heroic characters. it always amazes me how people do this every time...

    they've known since combine/sleeper about the separation issues, yet they keep doing this, I gather it's easier on a much diminished team(still doesn't explain the other servers, but hey...). they repeated the same mistake on eq2, weee! yes, they cannot affect some changes without affecting live, it's a pain in the for both sides, and always has to be considered for each side (really the mage pets in ragefire are a prime example).