We are Reign of Eternity

And to whoever you are... How is refuting an argument with facts hair splitting?

"That guy killed a man"

"No, he didn't... here is some proof"

"Well, if you want to split hairs... I guess he didn't"

Wait longer. The truth is slowly coming out. It's rather funny that TL keeps denying even when the truth is there for people to see. Hilarious to me. You responded though. Keep it coming good sir.

The hair splitting is about what you consider socking, and "being pro active."

Don't know who you are either btw

I find it hilarious that you continue to tell people things like "the truth is out there for people to see" yet provide no actual links, screen shots, logs, or anything of substance other than some anonymous forum posting from yourself.

Then tell me I am covering up some kind of conspiracy with my publicly known / gathered facts.

The more proof I provide to invalidate your argument, the more vague/opaque your argument becomes.... I wonder if that is a sign of me being wrong.. or you?

My facts vs. your backtracking.

Please, go back to your 9-11 / Bilderberg conspiracy forums.

Socking = Another guild is there contesting the spawn so we arrive in force and sock.

(This is the order of events: Tracker shows up > Notices raid force that isn't us > Sock is called.)

Being pro-active = It's the middle of the night, and I know Vox is in window.. I really don't have much to do.. so I'm gunna go camp GBS in Qeynos Hills so if she spawns I'm only a zone and a half away. Or let me try to hitch onto this Efreeti group in SolB because I know Naggy is in window and it's nice to be close.

Or, even better... I know Naggy is going to be in window around the time I get home from work tomorrow so I am going to log off in SolB so I can log in and mobilize fast.

(Order of events: No opposing force > Languid pace towards zone where potential raid mob could spawn)

Not trying to sound like a jerk. But there is a HUGE difference in the two.

In those cases yea. But having 12 mages in perma, a more than sufficient force to kill her, during her window isn't realky the same as those other examples. There's also another thread where members of TL admitted to starting a naggy sock cause they felt roi was going to start one anyway. Doesn't get much clearer than that. TL might prefer not to sock, and I definately believe that much, but where there is smoke there is fire. It just comes off as hypocritical.

Not that you owe me or anyone an explanation anyhow, but hey, it's a message board.

Its all rather silly anyway. Frankly I'd rather sock than deal with ogre walls and training that happens during a "race" anyway. It's just trading one set of problems for another

So you're saying this.. http://www.tlguild.org/raids//listcharacters.php?s=

With a sidebar that says DKP Infos and has a link to DKP-Plus and refers to items with values that are then paid, isn't DKP?

lololololol

"side note for fact-checkers: If you go to the TL website, you can click on the raid tab (it's public) and see the fact that TL doesn't use DKP"

What's that saying? The bigger the lie...

It also shows, very prominently, "Loot Factor". Which was a system used in Triality for example, and is actually the system TL's is based upon. It's a data-driven loot council pretty much. As such, it doesn't appear to be that much of a stretch to use a database designed for DKP with an extra data field.

Again, that's hair splitting. A loot system, that uses points. It's not a far reach to say a guild member would refer to that as DKP when talking to someone else

Since I love doing this. On fippy, when TL is out mobilized a few times their trainers ended up training the out mobilizing party during luclin, this is the future of what's going to happen. Also getting RA ticks for socking is the same as getting DKP. it's six of one half a dozen of the other. This is an RoE thread why not get the out.
Edit: That goes to everyone clogging this thread up since every thread turns into anti TL.

You consistently jump to conclusions that support your argument. It's why less and less people take you seriously. If you inspect that website you'll see we use raid attendance/loot given to you to create a metric, that metric is used to determine how much loot you've acquired over a period of time. Example, if 2 items is worth 4 points (all items are 4 points), having a "loot factor" of 8 points tells an officer how many drops you've gotten recently.

Drops are awarded via merit (raid attendance %) combined with how much loot you've gotten recently (loot factor). It's not DKP because you neither spend accrued "points" nor build "points" for attending guild events.

The only thing we care about is Raid Attendance (past 60 days) combined with what item your're upgrading from. The only thing that "loot factor" does is make it so one dude doesn't clean up while others of his class with similar attendance doesn't go bone dry while he does so. Obviously the guy with similar raid attendance but is upgrading from fine plate or something is going to get the item. It's loot council, it's not DKP.

Fundamental difference here is that DKP is where you bid/buy items with "points". Whereas the only points we factor in, is how much loot you've gotten in the past 60 days. It's about spreading the love between those that deserve it.

Fact check, please.

I know it was almost 2 in the morning but this is just lazy.

Did you ctrl+f for the string "DKP" and immediately jump to conclusions?

Sigh, please read what Greg said and apologize again for misinformation.


Also, on a side note.. can you please explain how that "Naggy / CT / Inny" are in window on a server restart theory is going for you over on Lockjaw? Guy's get many Inny / CT / Naggy kills within first 12 hours of Lockjaw being up?


Lawl.

Whoa when did this become the TL thread?

On lighter news RoE is making good progress in sky.

I've used precisely the same system for guilds in the past - we still referred to it as DKP, shrug. And that was over a decade ago. (Specifically as "Points-less DKP" was the title we gave to it)

Cypher on Stromm for example - in fact I was the "DKP Officer" over there for the system, even though we awarded items based on merit, didn't hand out points and only used the system to track attendance. [we didn't track drops - so we were even "less DKP than you" even though we called it that]

At the very least, you've got to concede it's an easy confusion to make and it's realistically a HYBRID system of DKP and non.

Heck from a common definition of the topic: "Dragon kill points or DKP are a semi-formal score-keeping system (loot system) used by guilds in massively multiplayer online games. Players in these games are faced with large scale challenges, or raids, which may only be surmounted through the concerted effort of dozens of players at a time. While many players may be involved in defeating a boss, the boss will reward the group with only a small number of items desired by the players. Faced with this scarcity, some system of fairly distributing the items must be established."

Only has one final sentence appended to make it fit completely - the one about accruing and spending points.

Sure it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck - but it's a goose - good for you, it's still in the same ballpark as it still serves all the same primary functions and uses mostly the same methods.

Another quality Vaclav post where he chimes in claiming to be an expert on things he doesn't know anything about.

Says TL_KRONOLORD

What people who don't raid often confuse, is the difference between scouting and socking. We usually have a scout keeping an eye on targets that are in window. When they spawn we alert the guild, mobilize and kill the mob.

That's the alternative, a mobilization race. That's what we try to make every raid start from.

Obviously things don't always go so smoothly.

Since this thead somehow ended being about TL's internal loot distribution (DKP) policy, let me say, it sounds pretty cool. DKP was so unfair, since a ranger or rogue could often bid 1 DKP to get something, and save their points to outbid a worthy monk or warrior on something, who always had to bid for their items.

Why did you stop posting as Jamz anyhow?

And not claiming expertise - explaining why IMO it is a DKP system including my personal experience handling the system that Cypher used that apparently shared MOST of the tenets.

I do know a reasonable amount however being I've run two systems (Cypher and DHS 1.0 - real DKP in the second case, whatever you want to call semi-merit with attendance tracking for Cypher) - and been a member using the system on four others. (2 DKP - DHS 2.0 and 3.0... and two truly merit - much earlier)