Only thing an SK can do to pull agro off me is Taunt with a bunch of stuff behind it (Same as Paladin or another Warrior can do) or use Harm Touch out of the gate. Either one is easy to muscle through and regain agro nearly instantly on. Can also relatively easily hold agro on multiple targets while an SK is AOE'ing. Just requires a lot more work than hitting an AOE disc/spell on refresh. I really don't understand all the Knight hate on the forums, assuming it's mainly from people who need to learn their stuff better. I can do their job on raids just as well as they can, and in some scenarios they can do mine all the same. The reality of the classes vs each other is 1 solely relies on other people for 100% of their heals. Sure in group content knights have an edge but it's not that big unless you're doing outlandish comparisons. It's like Clerics complaining that Shamans and Druids have single target heals and do more DPS. Real stupid stuff.
Oh yay 2018 and people still don’t know how shield specialist et al (whatever name they are calling it now) bring war 1her and shield equivalent to knight ratios.
Shield stance does not bring war to knight ratios cause knights have the same stance, and better 1handers. Please explain how this is equalivent. Go on listening. Wurmslayer is not a fair arguement, its rare and there a lots of people that bid on it fight for it in a guild, so again lets compare war only blades to knight weapons, better damage, better ratio, better procs. And you say ohh its for 'offhand' blah blah that is pointless argument if you are comparing shield tank to shield tank
2hand is just what it says and meant for just what it says, "Two Hands to wield it"... I get it though, you just wanna do more damage. Warriors can pump out some damage now and then when certain discs are up, but we cannot sustain it and never will I hope. We are a tank class, meant to hold agro and defend ourselves better than any other tank class can. We are not meant to do dps, that's what the dps classes are for. Even at our best dps on a burn, a real dps class is doing the same dps or better without burning at all. As far as warlord's grasp goes, it sounds like you're not using it at the right time and not backing it up properly. Your grasp can and will take the agro when another tank isn't fighting you for it. The proper time for grasp can be a few things. A - When another tank is stepping down and you're next in line, they stop all agro and you step in and take it using grasp and a couple of small sustainable backups such as your bazu line or your ridicule line, or your agro pets (you've got 2 of them, disc>AA), and a few more. You've got many options to hold agro, your weapon proc is just a sustainer, it's not meant to pull agro off of someone. You need to use your skills. And not only that, you also need to learn which skills work well together and which do not, I don't recommend using bazu and ridicule together personally, but that's just me. You've also got you passive AA that boosts your normal taunt key plus a disc that boosts it plus adds a nuke to it for 5 mins. It draws a LOT of agro when combined with something like grasp or your agro pets or both. Watch your agro meter window and toy around with your taunts with someone else tanking (make sure they know you want to test first lol) and use a taunt from one line, then use a taunt from another line. Your number will either rise or lower. That's why I typically don't use bazu and ridicule lines together becuz it tends to lower my agro, making it easy for someone else to take it. Another thing is, you're gonna have other people taunt up so that if you die or step down, they're next in the agro list to take it. You gotta make sure you're on top of your game to hold it from them, becuz typically between 85-90 is where they're aiming to go on the agro meter. You can't depend on a weapon proc and doing dps or you'll continue on the path that you're on. Play around with someone and learn your stuff thoroughly. I'm by no means a perfect tank, no one is really, even the best of us screw up sometimes. You just gotta pick back up and move on, don't get angry or upset about it, just move on and learn what your mistake was and build on it. Lastly, your gear and amount of assigned AA's plays a big role for warriors. If you don't have all of your agro AA's, you're gonna have problems too. Get yourself a "slow" belt (helps with agro, mobs hate when it gets resisted or tries to overwrite another but can't) and a "hate" mask and all of the AC you can squeeze out. Hit points will follow, just go all out AC, Hagi, Hsta, everything else will follow nicely. Max out your combat agility and stability as soon as you get new one's available, nothing comes before those, not even agro. Also max out shield block asap. Grab all the agro you possibly can and all the defense you possibly can, learn your taunts and how they work and WHEN they work best, and you'll be a strong tank (don't forget your defense discs!). Need any help? Step to me... I'm not the best by any means, but I'll never steer ya wrong. There is no "one way" to play a warrior. Play it how you want. Or take my advice and watch the improvement from where you currently seem to be. But I'd seriously give up on dps, we're not built for it, but we do have enuff to survive out on our own, especially with a good 2 hander such as Scar or Grave. And for the love of god, give up on the DW thing, it's only meant for agro and slightly more dps than sword and board (again, we're not a dps class so it's a lost cause anyways), but you take a drastic defense loss compared to sword and board plus the stance. Sword and board is meant for true tanking. DW is meant for taunting up when you're not the main tank but need to be next in line. Swap to DW and use your taunts to taunt up, then swap to sword and board when you actually take over, and then sustain it. At NO time should you be using a 2 hander on a raid unless you're NOT in the tank lineups. We don't need the ability to wield a 2hander in one hand, we're not a dps class. Hope this helps! Best Regards Maddie http://defiant.forumotion.net <<<<Go there for more warrior info
Oh I forgot "B" when talking about when to use grasp. So for that, it is also best used to take snap agro off of a dps class when you're in charge of picking up stragglers. And follow up with other taunts of course.
Warrior did just fine before Shield AA's with dual wield. It was our primary tanking. SoF screwed that up, and it wasn't for 'dps' it was being able to dual proc agro procs. Taunt fails now its been nerfed. If you read through the melee spam it will say XXX is too high level for you to taunt now. Which didn't happen before. That was a nerf. Secoundly warlords grasp does not work past a certain level which most named and raid bosses in RoS are way above that level. I've even used unyielding before and still the monster ignores you and stays on the wrong target, so again...top agro system is nerfed or messed up. Does that have anything to do with 2hander being wielded in 1hand with shield or off hand weapon, not directly, however it was merely a suggestions, since several times forward now been mentioned war need a better 1hander with fair value close to knights since we are expected to shield tank now, the 2hander idea was merely a suggestion to combat that, but once again another dissapointing expansion with a pathetic war only 1hander being way below par in comparison to knights. Ohh well they are the golden children of DBG it is expected *shrugs* I have all my agro aa's I have many excellent augs I always focus Hagi and some Hsta focus. I have had all my tanking aa's for several months now. Only thing I haven't had much till recently was some RoS raid gear, been stuck in EoK for quite some time. That takes time You are right everyone plays different. But I fail to see why us having a 2hander and a chance for a shield or off hand with it would be negative impact in any way shape or form. So why would anyone be against it, is my question.
What mob were you tanking? I've yet to have taunt fail in the sense the mob "resisted it" on anything that I am aware of, raids and group content alike. Maybe you hit Warlord's Grasp on a mob too high level which would display a message along the lines of Warlord's Grasp Taunt did not take hold or whatever the message is. Just because the ratio on the knight and warrior weapon are far apart does not mean the actual DPS when used follows the same trend. Swing DPS alone between a knight with 1hander and a warrior with 1hander is basically the same in favor of the warrior. Every time a knight casts a spell they're losing swing DPS, the higher damage helps to make that gap up in-between casts *presumably*. I personally am against an idea such as 2hander + shield, aside from it being silly it's an attempt to bridge a gap that does not actually exist. However I am all for bringing back warrior weapons with rune procs from a defensive standpoint. Agro is meh to me as far as procs go, I've been using the Wurmslayer without any procs outside of Infusion of Rage and have had 0 agro problems so far.
That cause they haven't really made any anger +damage proc augs in how many levels? I mean most of us use ac augs instead but if you could have two dd+hate procs like the old times then yeah I could see it almost being useful. It could be warlords grasp but i get the message every time I taunt but taunt on the same key as a few other faster cd agro abilities. From what I was reading It made me think taunt was level restricted as well.
The warr wep proc is very strong on its own. Dont just look at the amount of dmg it procs for make sure you look at the hate part of the proc as well you will find its alot stronger then you give it credit for. So if your haveing issues with aggro you should look in to that . Also its just an all around better wep then the wurmy for raiding in general. Im all for rune procs on warr weps, gimme My advice for warriors that are hsveing a hard time with aggro is to rotate your hate mods properly. Warlords fury Dicotomic shield Rage of the forsaken Keep in mind that they dont stack. Highest mod take effect Theres also glyth of angry thots if you need another one
I'm curious you tell us what disc / AA you use which has enough AE hate to get aggro of a SK relatively easily. Apart Dragonstrike Blade which is our 45 sec 19 k ish aggro, the rest of our AE aggro tools are : 1 min recast Roar of Challenge AA, 2 k hate Harmonious Expanse, 2,5 k hate 5 min recast Wade Into Battle, 3,5 k hate So assuming if you use all your hate stuff, you produced 27 k hate. A SK using Hateful Bargain only produce 24 k hate. If this SK use some other AE aggro stuff, he will go over 27 k hate very easily. You can use AE taunt which will give you hate on you of all mobs, but serves no use as you will end on all the mobs on you instead of only a part of the mobs you want to AE aggro. And then a SK will regain aggro so easily after this. SK cannot be touched at all on AE aggro. If you can relatively easily take AE aggro from them, they didn't really went hard on AE aggroing the bunch. Note that I don't ask for a nerf to SK AE aggro. I find it fair they are way more powerful than the other tanks on this. General Dekloaz blur moment. When Ageless Enmity and Area Taunt are down, you are without other 100 % aggro grab tools. Warlord grasp and Unyielding Attention don't work as the mob is too high level. You have to rely on the old taunt. Can fail sometime (rarely), even when Biting Tongue is up.
You can taunt every 2 seconds as a warrior . That can also proc our aa and you can have biteing on. Also you can if you offtanking it as i asume you are cuz he dosent last long if you raid is on him. Time his blurr and just be he does it shoot out you phantom that will most likly take second hate phantom and becoz raid boss status he will remain on you problem solved and i just saved you bunch of cooldowns. You also get to taunt of you phantom if you get a sucess to retain the majority of your aggro
I never said I was creating AOE hate to pull off of their AOE hate. I use a combination of single target agro and constantly cycle through the mobs I intend to keep. On top of using Dragonstrike, Expanse and Wade. Like I said, it's more work than just hitting an AOE over and over but 100% possible. I personally will use Phantom on General once the blur warning goes off to streanline agro when it hits. But they were referring mainly to a resist message which they thought was on regular skill taunt. I think it got narrowed down to the taunt portion of Warlord's Grasp, or potentially Undivided. Taunt was in their wording of the message though so it was most likely not Undivided.
A sk shouldnt be using their harmonious on a raid except when specifically looking for hard ae aggro. If they are, they will just mess up other tanks. A sk has enough tools to get hate without using harmonious. Under certain circumstances, it is an awesome tool but they really shouldn't be using it all the time.
This thread is comedic gold. It went from wanting Diablo 2 berserker style weapon set up to whining about SK aggro.
Ah k makes more sense. I thought of the option to dump single target aggro on mobs you want to grab. But I wanted to see your answer first. I didn't know this trick with Phantom aggressor for the blur stuff. Before the blur happens, you have a 13 sec thing that pops in your buff window, do you click phantom at the start of these 13 sec or at the very end ? Repthor and Fintank, thanks for this trick. I remember using Phantom on EoK Chardok Prince when he was about to disappear, so that you could gain aggro back when Prince was back. Was working sometimes.
If your SK's are taking aggro from you, they suck or you suck. It's that simple. Other than HT which means they will pull aggro period, SK's shouldn't pull aggro off you ever if you are doing what you should be doing. This, unless they are just not good/smart and are hitting taunt or some other aggro tool that they shouldn't be using if not tanking.
I have a Gina Trigger that gives me a 10 second timer before the blur hits, so at about 5 seconds left I pop Phantom to make sure it lasts through the cast.
no the point is that the creator of the thread wanted to use a 2hander in primary to have more aggro/dps claiming there isent enough aggro in the warrior arsenal to preform their job alreaddy . thats simply not true if you use tools you have
