Warrior macros and disc/AA rotation

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Yahsha, May 6, 2020.

  1. Yahsha Journeyman

    Good evening,
    While servers are down, figured I would take the time to share the following Warrior setup in the hopes that someone out there will beat it up and make it better.

    Items relevant to look at are the macros at the bottom of sheet 1, and the disc rotation on Sheet 2.

    While it is incomplete, if you can take a look at it, identify greater efficiencies or challenge the math (it was done via rough estimate, no real parses to back them up yet), I would greatly appreciate it.


    Magrath and Tygart like this.
  2. Tucoh Augur

    Looks about right to me. All EQ classes have their own tribulations but it feels like beyond other classes warriors have the highest responsibility to weave a symphony of defensive abilities that strike the perfect balance of mitigation vs longevity. To be able to perform in the myriad situations we find ourselves in we have to have complete mastery of how the different defensive abilities stack until coming up with the right chorus of abilities becomes second nature.

    For posterity, this is the previous thread talking about how to accomplish that.
    Magrath and Yahsha like this.
  3. Yahsha Journeyman

    Ah, that is a good post but more concerned with group tanking whereas I focused purely on raid tanking. But linking them was good for an all around discussion.
  4. Szilent Augur

    I hate warrior macros. As a rule, they lead to ignorance, under performance, and ignorant excuses for under performance ("but I used my macro!").
    Duder likes this.
  5. Szilent Augur

    Finish the Fight has a cooldown of 5 minutes, not 4

    multibinding Knuckle means no Tempest tagging-without-targeting ever

    how many of these abilities have their own buttons? do you plain not have RoRZ available as an agro or dps tool ever since it's nailed to your "runes" button? is /bando remoteheals really part of a multibind?

    Biting Tongue is trash.

    Intensity is ... okay, not a boldface "trash" on this one, but super questionable, for warriors. Blocks Auspice, which does almost infinitely more for dps.

    Vehement Rage, Offensive disc have down side trade offs much stronger than their benefits. You gotta be deeeeeep on the tanking bench to consider them.

    Bottle of Vex is -dps.

    Necromantic Dragon Bone is -dps.

    DragonGlyph is not "you're in over your head" - it's a tool that should be used. Is the red section somehow separate from the rest? I can't tell what it's for.

    Breather not mentioned. Relax has a pretty beefy down side that goes unmentioned.

    Blade Guardian totally stacks with Divine Guardian (or Ancestral Guardian, or Firefly Guardian Spirit. shm & dru varities do not stack with cle version.)

    Stormstrike & Brace For Impact conflict. Stormstrike is, of course, much much worse versus anything that matters.

    Phantom Aggressor 30s duration. Its agro generation varies on the number of "Phantom Aggressor Attack"s it gets before expiring. mine got 8 & 15 & 12 in two quick tests, for 106k & 200k & 160k agro respectively. whole different order of magnitude than what you describe

    the agro generated by Projection of Fury is conditional on it surviving to expire
  6. Szilent Augur

    Determined Reprisal

    Strike Through

    Mighty Strike

  7. p2aa Augur

    If it's for raid content, your Fortitude / engage macro is not right, Unending Attention has a lvl limit and many raids mobs have above this limit, you would better replace it by Ageless Enmity.

    Also, I don't know what expansion raid content you are doing, but your mitigation chart doesn't take into account that some of our abilities don't last for their full duration on ToV raid bosses, especially those who hit the hardest.
    Warrior's Rampart last 5 to 10 sec of 3 min, Dissident Shielding last 30 sec of 1 min, Roaring Shielding last 1 min to 1 min 15 of 3 min, Warlord's Bravery can last 40-50 sec of 1 min 30, Guardian Bravery is max 48 sec duration and not 1 min.

    You can run Commanding Voice and Paragon Champion while Ultimate Stand is running, not only under Courageous Defense.

    There are many ways to chain your mitigation abilities, there is not one best way.

    Regarding aggro, it's better to not spam Warlord Fury and keep it for when you need it. And using it while Dissident Shielding is running is not a good idea too cause you are wasting some aggro mod.
    Also Rage of Rallos Zek is an aggro tool in raid to lock some aggro at start while DW 2 war weapons.

    Lastly, the warrior is not a macro / multibind heavy class. I use at most 3-4 macros (including in these macros one macro with Commanding Voice + Paragon Champion), and all my mitigation abilities are single buttons. If it works for you though, then it's fine
  8. Yahsha Journeyman

    I lot to address here (which is GREAT btw). Was hoping someone like you might weigh in.

    1. Macros. Means of consistently combining abilities that maximize effects on a consistent basis. If you do them wrong, it can lead to issues. But proper testing will alleviate this. As a backup, I have audio triggers that tell me what effect is on, for how long, and when it goes down so that I can synchronize the next macro. Liking/not liking them is a matter of play style imho.

    2. Knuckle bind - fair point. My #1 concern is raiding is I think knuckle is better than tempest in this setting.

    3. Biting Tongue - agreed, not the most impactful disc out there. Only significant disc it shares a timer with is Mighty Strike. Again, raiding in mind, aggro and survival are my main focus - not DPS. So it may be a question of play style. That being said, I do not want to deny the "DPS" warriors out there. Some can really crank it out. Just not my play style.

    4. Intensity exists. I rarely use it due to my play style. But it lasts for 2 minutes and can be pressed before or after auspice.

    5. Vehement Rage. Much like other DPS abilities, I don't consider them as the focus is Aggro and survival. But it can be used when not raid tanking or tanking group content as it only lasts a minute or so.

    6. Necromantic. I focus more on the 'healing' click than the dmg. But yes, you can consider it DPS.

    7. Bottle of Vex. Another that can be considered DPS, but again, I focus more on the AE dmg/aggro component.

    8. Dragon Glyph. Is awesome. Where you saw it was in the compressed 'Super Tank' category where you squeeze in every ability you can in a 3 minute window over defensive in a tank rotation. Adding Glyph over this IS over the top and best reserved outside that window. Do have parsing for this and it shows that you only save approximately 5k per hit adding Glyph to that rotation. In which case, you are better off saving it.

    9. Breather. Relax is way better imo. Again, raid setting, you die and need to recover quickly to get back in the fight. The minute timer you are getting buffs and get in there. On top of that, the drawback to Relax has had 0 effect on getting/keeping aggro from my experience. Breather sharing a timer with Relax and having a 36 min timer removes it from consideration imo.

    10 Blade Guardian. Blade Guardian places a 'spirit' on you that gives you the buff - this blocks the Divine Guardian 'spirit'. Again, raid setting - DG is better than BG.

    11. Stormstrike IS horrible. I always like to find uses for everything but this one plain sucks. Bane dmg in Mearatas perhaps? Who knows...I may get adventurous one day.

    12. Phantom Aggressor. That info was pulled from Lucy.

    13. Projection of Fury. Agreed, but instead of getting into variables - just put in the 'default' value.

    14. Thanks for those disc catches - put them in.
  9. Yahsha Journeyman

    Good input here.

    You are right about Unending attention and maybe I should look at moving that as the focus is raiding. I am going to contradict myself here a little, to say that I keep basically the same setup for grouping and I dont want to create multiple UI setups. But it is certainly a good point.

    You are absolutely correct about Rampart, Dissident and Roaring not lasting as advertised. I tried to capture this in the different "tank settings" on Sheet 2. I base my tanking on what needs to be done as soon as Roaring goes down. It is difficult to explain...but if you run in with Defensive and Roaring, and Roaring gives you 1 minute or less, then immediately go into Dissident and you are either in "Ironman in trouble" or Super Tank territory depending on the tank team situation around you. Once those are exhausted then maybe its time for Glyph - just a feel / play thing.

    I developed the tank system on Sheet 2 to give me a systematic approach to tanking and it allows me to assess the situation and have a systematic approach to each ability as it fails so that I can transition to the next. Works for me.

    Again you are correct about CV and Paragon running concurrently - maybe I should capture that better in the table instead of confusing the matter by not having them there. Initial intent was to avoid unnecessary clutter.

    Warlord Fury - you know, I've had this in several places over the years and I like where it is now - this may change and you make a good argument. My rationale is that is has a significant buff timer and a short retimer. I think it gives greater aggro in a bind set up instead of an emergency reserve.

    Macros. As per earlier comment - its a play stye thing, I like them and they work. Helps keep the 'system' intact and allows me more time to assess the situation based on the GINA triggers I have developed to support it.
  10. Szilent Augur

    The agro lock is level capped, but the HOT & agro multiplier recourse work totally fine, as does the agro per tick.

    Warlord's Fury has a 90s cool down now, having supplanted Rage of the Forsaken. Holding it to pick spots wastes its 25k agro (multiplied to 50k by the Dissident you also mention)
    Yahsha likes this.
  11. Szilent Augur

    Knuckle debuffs a boss for a single combat round, the opportunity cost starts with 3 uses of a high agro ability even on just the one target, apart from that ability's utility in protecting the raid when adds pop.

    Intensity is 1 minute not two. The issue is that once you click it, you're then barred from even potentially receiving Auspice for that minute. Any time in an event you might think it appropriate to burn, a ranger might also think it appropriate to burn. If they use their buttons, yours just cost you a mazillion damage.

    You're overestimating the dps contribution of Vehement Rage

    Bone & Bottle are as much -agro as they are -dps, and the healing doesn't even rise to the level of "cute"

    Warrior abilities do not require the amount of endurance returned by Relax. Breather has half the cool down time. The drawback on Relax absolutely impacts agro since you get none from your weapons while it's active.

    it is tested this trivially:
  12. p2aa Augur

    You won't be able to take aggro of someone though, because the aggro lock is not working, and this is the main point. The 60-65 % aggro mod to start is lacklustered compared to the 80 % of Warlord Fury and 100 % of Dissident, which are much better options as aggro mod starters.

    I have encountered much more than once that some good skilled melee DPS are not generating a constant aggro delivery over a fight, there are many moments where they are spiking and climbing aggro faster (hello monks and beastlords) when they trigger some of their abilities, and in this case 1 min 30 is still too long refresh, or dissident shielding is down 4 min of 5. It's much more efficient for me to not click it on cooldown. Also, the same case can be make on raid mobs that kinda blur aggro every swap of inactive time, Tserina, Griklor and Narandi for example. It's handy to be able to rely on a ready Warlord Fury when they are back active than if you engage with none.
    And I repeat it, clicking Dissident Shielding while Warlord's Fury is running is a waste of the 20 sec of 80 % aggro provided by Warlord's Fury.
  13. Yahsha Journeyman

  14. Szilent Augur


  15. Yahsha Journeyman

    Breather III
    1: Increase Endurance by 4203 to 1401 per tick
    3: Cap Endurance (29%)

    Relax II
    1: Increase Endurance by 10102 per tick
    3: Cap Endurance (33%)
    9: Hundred Hands Effect

    Based on that, you can make your own determination. You raise a good point wrt the drawback - however, Relax will get you back in the fight at twice the rate of Breather. In addition, I see no Aggro drawback from using Relax - by that I mean, my endurance regens super fast - I can fire taunts while its going and End regens faster still, AND I am able to grab and keep aggro no problems at all.

    For Vehement Rage, either use it or don't. It has conditions where you can use it, it adds to DPS - just requires wise application.

    For knuckle, having to choose to dull a Boss's attack or Tempest, I am taking the knuckle. I have other abilities such as AE taunt, Expanse, Wade into Battle, Rampage that can do that. But I much prefer to rely on my knight teammates to pick up adds while I am tanking the boss.

    Bone/Bottle: DPS or Aggro, TomAto/TomAHto. I really don't see the value in arguing it.
  16. Yahsha Journeyman

    Because they appear in your buff window does not mean they stack.
  17. Yahsha Journeyman

    Hrm...having trouble finding it now, but there was a topic in the forums here that discussed Blade Whirl and Guardian Spirit.

    The synopsis is that Guardian Spirit and Blade Whirl do not stack. Once Divine Guardian triggers its Guardian spirit, it blocks Blade Whirl. If Blade Whirl is on, it blocks Guardian Spirit.

    So....between those two - take the Divine Guardian and trash Blade Guardian.
  18. Szilent Augur

    [Thu May 07 12:24:48 2020] Magical blades whirl around you. <--- Blade Whirl proc from Blade Guardian
    [Thu May 07 12:24:49 2020] Your guardian graces you with life. <--- Guardian's Grace proc from Divine Guardian
    [Thu May 07 12:24:49 2020] You healed Szilent for 79718 hit points by Guardian's Grace VI.

    Cadman likes this.
  19. Yahsha Journeyman

  20. Yahsha Journeyman

    Try it the other way around since that would be easier to test. Guardian spirit blocks it for 1 minute, whereas Blade Whirl can come and go in less than a second.