I started raiding in a mid tier guild with an alt. (Still had like cotf t1 group in,a bunch is slots) It's funny at 105 cleric dps must be pretty beast mode, I was making top 5/10 on live mobs
Can you give us your experience of MT TBM raid bosses with a paladin ? What interests us here is the current situation.
Umm, yeah thats pretty much the point..Paladins arent the ones tanking now. its Shadow Knights and Warriors. For many reasons. Primarly because our utility and contribution better serve most raids in other areas. A supportive back up role in healing, tanking and in some instances, dps. That is one reason. The other because they are better suited for it. even our highest and best defensive discipline, holy guardian will work against a paladin in the area of hate generation. Lowering the damage we do great reduces our hate because of crippling effect on the dps. Now add to that the fact our AC is much lower then a warrior so yeah even with new mitigation we cant simply rely on outside healing. Our aggro nukes will experience interruptions enough to further reduce our hate generated. In my experience tanking Vim, 6 minutes too much spiking in health. Too hard for most healers to keep up, so self healing is also required further lowering hate. And last. You wont find paladins tanking mid tier raiding guilds probably because a mid tier guild does not need paladin utility locked up tanking a raid boss when classes that are better suited with more aggro control are always available and better at it. I am fine with that. I am not fine with these calls to nerf knights. Ask for boosts for you're class. Fine. But enough with the hating. Crying like little girls. Stop hating. Ask for a boost, i am sure you will get it.
Brohg. I have yet to hear from a paladin who has actually MT as successfully as either SK or warrior on tbm content. If they are out there then let us open a thread that we might all share and contribute this wealth of information. I doubt they are out there simply because if a guild needs a tank bad enough to sacrifice that amount of utility because they are short on tanks. Most likely healing is sub par as well. Double whammy. The few times i have MT on a rotation. INNY for example. Is a good comparsion on how the AC and discipline abilities are much more superior to a knights as is hate generation. I might be a bad tank. But i imagine i know my class fairly well. [/quote]Warriors do have the "advantage" of not having any options except the good agro ones. Paladins have options.[/quote] I agree with you on that. I think warriors need and should have some more options. It seems over due. I hope you guys get it. But not at the expense of another class please.
Unfortunately that isn't how hate is generated. Hate is generated by swing aggro the reduced damage has no impact on your aggro from melee.
As your potshot is so unwittingly aware I don't raid. But unlike your moronic assertions I am able to grasp hate generation of dps classes between end game and midtier. It has been drastically different in all eras of eq.
Ok, I could be wrong on this, but I always thought aggro from melee attack was based on Swing + damage bonus on the weapon. Now would it be a decrease to the weapons damage bonus for the duration of the discipline? So if I am taking a 60 percent damage reduction on my hits, that is determined based on damage bonus, so that does effect aggro, or am I misunderstanding how that works? I am not a programmer, but it seems logical that a reduction in damage output would be a temporary negative assigned to whatever variable is in the equation that multiples damage (Damage Bonus). But that is an assumption. So i could be completely BS
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/paladin-aggro.217512/ This one should be moved to the tank channel, imo...I just came across it. Its not just me who noticed changes during Feb patch
That thread is over a year old, much has changed. I also remember ripping agro from you when we did our little test while using 2h and dps setup, no pure agro. I tried to help you then, there is still things for you to learn. Paladin agro is the weakest of the 3 tanks, but still way more than adequate to keep it over any dps class.
You can deal 0 melee damage from every swing and still generate the same amount of swing aggro it is one reason why the switch from warriors dual wield tanking to sword and board tanking took 5 years of giving us massive hate boosts to fix our aggro. The damage bonus number is calculated whether you hit or not that is why we refer to it as swing hate. And also no that is not taken off your damage bonus it is taken off after you roll a successful hit. The damage bonus or damage your weapon has is never reduced as far as I am aware everything is reduced later. You can actually test this yourself by going and tanking lord inquisitor seru without a bane weapon which is when everyone figured this out as fact and not just an idea. Also all 3 tank classes should when played correctly and using their abilities can and do tank almost all of the current TBM raids I have assigned paladins on multiple events in the expansion and they did fine. I was actually rotating them in and still do when the other guy that does the tank lines is not online. Paladin hate does seem a little less front loaded then the other 2 tank classes though. Even though one of ours has picked up the respawn of wither and I could only jump up to 60% hate directly afterwards which my 2 hotkeys usually overtake most tanks or puts me around 90% but thats like 9 abilities cast within 2 seconds.
No, the 60% reduction is in the final hit, doesnt effect the dmg bonus of the weapon at all, the damage reduction will not reduce your swing agro by any. You also get swing agro on a miss, thus no damage is being done, but you still get agro for the swing.
Sojero,, Come on now...We did a Dh mission which i tanked, you were on dps..I remember our parsing was only 4k apart You were able to build up and take it a few times, while using Valiant, FD, Crush of Povar, and I was using Hate AA's, Ageless, unflinching, when needed...Our little test in EWK with Crush Vs Stun did prove to be legit.....I think that was the only thing we didn't agree on, and ill still stand by using stuns on DH missions, and any time I can in a group setting, it just makes more sense, a stunned mob is not a threat.....So yeah, you didn't teach me anything. Look, its no secret, Warrior and SK aggro is greater then paladin Aggro, have you tanked a boss with a paladin, if so which one? I think its funny how many players want to comment about paladin aggro that have never MT current content, Look, I am not complaining, but BS...Paladins are not in rotations because they aren't dialed in for it.
DPS had nothing to do with it, I was under geared and lower rank spells at that time, and we weren't doing a dps race, I was holding back to not pull agro on you most the time. Also the point was never is crush vs stun better against stunnable mobs, it was to teach you that crushes are better agro than stuns are. The problem you have is that you already think you know best, and that others cannot teach you. I also dont have a pally that is current anymore to tank in a raid with, but I can certainly tell you that when my guilds pallys stand up they dont lose agro and they tank just fine. Also you say I didn't teach you anything then you mention what I taught you in EWK, keep up the good work.
I tank in current TBM content as a warrior, and when paladins have to step to MT TBM raid bosses (when wars died), they tank and hold aggro fine in my mid tier guild.
Solo? That's priceless. Warriors cannot solo current level content at all. No wonder you respond to trolls. You say dumb stuff also. Weren't you the one that tried to overly trivialize self healing to unfathomable laughable levels of uselessness?
No but I sure as hell was not overselling its limitations and drawbacks like some seem to think it does not have.
Why would any random warrior bother to come and even post an idea if your not in that little warrior circle they jump all over them with how horrible an idea it is and how they know nothing about the class.
