The great thing about an open forum is that players who do not know can put in their two cents when it costs a dollar they have not earned to play. Somewhere in this forum Piestro has a stickied thread that defends anonymous posting - it's the quality of the idea that matters not the identity or qualifications of the source. Nobody respects you BB 8). I'll put that on the refrigerator next to all Warriors want to return to DW as their default tanking setup and no one agrees with you that we should use S&B to tank challenging content. Um another website indicates that Warriors are not walking around PoK displaying their lightsabers and while the extremely small number of responders would prefer to DW 24/7 by roughly a 2 to 1 margin that's not at all nobody agrees with you BB. I'll handle my own data formating and PMing to devs Zalmonius, tyvm.
Out of curiosity where does warrior dps sit while tanking compared to the other tanks while tanking...i know tanking is not about dps but curious from a grouping/boxing standpoint.
Like everything else in the game it's situational. Put a Warrior in a group with a Bard and a Shaman and pull a steady stream of trivial mobs using a lot of DS, ripostes, and Battle Leap/Shield Topple when War Sheol's Blade isn't up to keep Killing Spree going as close to 100% of the time as possible and the class looks like a monster. That's the general kind of parse often presented when someone claims Warriors can do X * 10,000 DPS. (Keep in mind that the same is true for Paladins swarming especially vs, undead and SK's swarming). IMO having done this with a Warrior and a lower level Paladin and grouped with an SK doing it, IMO knights have a decided edge. Maybe not in DPS (I think they have a DPS advantage too), but definitely in combat self-healing. Tanking vs. challenging content I believed it's been said that Warriors do very good sustained damage. If your group or raid can pile ADPS on them they do decent damage but certainly not as good as a Warrior tanking a more trivial mob where they can forgo defensive discs and use offensive ones or when they aren't tanking and are burning all the offense they've got. I've been following raid parses for a couple of years and interestingly enough knights have been appearing in the top 20% by DPS more often than Warriors. Still I think we have a good DPS edge in non-trivial group content. Warriors defending that point out that knights bring a lot of outside the Tank Archetype group friendly utility Warriors can't provide. In essence arguing that absent the utility of a hybrid out approaching pure melee DPS is in effect our compensating sales pitch to groups in group content since DoN when tank parity went into effect. Lately, with raid content being more about complicated scripts and group events often mimicking raids how long you can stand there and tank without running out of discs and/or combat self-healing pretty much trumps tank DPS.
Difference is, even though I don't have the AA count, it doesn't mean I don't know how those AA's work, or how the class is played. I've been at the cutting edge of the game, and I've been in places where I was playing catch up. My understanding of the warrior class has grown with progression of the game. I can play pretty much any class at fairly maximum efficiency given a very short amount of time. I regularly box multiple classes on raids when we're short on certain classes, and play them about as well as someone who mains that class. Most of it is knowing how to set up the hotkeys for proper abilities, its not like this game is terribly complicated. Viltaire was at least man enough to admit that he didn't know, and in talking with him following that post, he was more than happy to admit he was wrong after I explained how it actually works. Hell, withina couple hours of posting up my request, I had numerous volunteers willing to help out with my above mentioned project. I know where my AA's need to be spent, and what I need to do to become effective as a warrior, and with that understanding, I also know where a class is lacking from a game balance point of view. Now, look at anything I've suggested, does any of it throw the game out of balance or skew warriors to become an overpowered class? Then again, you have no concept of game balance, so you're probably the worst person to ask. Read: Mommy said I can say whatever I want, so i'm gonna do it! Realistically, the majority of warriors are reactive players. They're not interested in pushing for something; they'll continue going with the flow of the game and simply taking what they're fed by Sony. They will simply adjust their stance to whatever provides the greatest benefit. It's why you'll never see hundreds of warriors up here posting about how they want something, and that's just fine. You'll find it's probably around (just to pull a number out of my , since only Sony really knows =P) 5% are actually willing to get up her and state their opinions. End of the day, until the class stops being fun to play, I'll play my warrior. However, stupidity like linking discs to weapon forms, are specifically not fun. Self-healing, well, we already have it. It's called Warlord's Tenacity. Knight based 1handers? Cool, I'll dual wield em and do OP DPS, while I let knights main tank in a group, being that knights are the superior group tank. That what you want the warrior class to be, an inferior tank and inferior DPS class? Read: I'm not interested in providing proof to the general public. I'll just keep cut and pasting the same stupidity with no support. Hopefully the devs are smart enough to realize that your ideas will pigeon hole us deeper in a hole than we already are. I feel sorry for you that you don't see how lacking the warrior class is compared to the other classes, and how your ideas will only serve to hurt us more in the long run.
Zal you are trying to reason with someone who literally can't comprehend a pov that is not his own. Someone who's suggestion for growth is to Nerf all options except his one skewed indefensible and narrow conception of a warrior so limited it defies description. Someone who has no interest in testing because their sophistry would shatter if they had to deal with facts. Someone who has driven away most posters on this forum with brainless and repetitive regurgitation. Finally..the repeated attempts to claim some "special" connection to devs as an appeal to an authority they do not have. It's simple. We need our defensive setup to provide our to defense...and an alternative dps to clearly provide our max dps...this is broke. It needs to be fixed. All but one person here understands this. You have done a great job of articulating the issue and of presenting possible solutions. I see it and so do all other rational members of our community except the troll under the bridge. He either cant get it....or his disruption is deliberate. either way I suggest we stop feeding him.
The Should Warriors DW Tank Challenging Content thread does in the myth that it's one person. Let's try a little honesty - most Warriors switched over to tanking with S&B two years ago and there's a double handful of diehards.. Actually he didn't notice the difference in tanking weapon DMG/DLY and DPS weapon DMG/DLY and how that's reponsible for the creation of a S&B DPS setup. IMO his analysis has beewn consistant with someone who doesn't have the level/AA's and plays a multitude of characters instead of focusing on one class. Before SS dropping the offhander was an adjudged by a SOE developer too great 30% loss in sustained damage when we use a shield. You should probably read up on the Cyclone Blade line before suggesting it creates a massive amount of damage that would distort a parse. From Lucy: "1H Slashing Attack for 50 with 10000% Accuracy Mod" That's right - it does ~50 damage (minor damage) to nearby targets. Some rational members of the Warrior community tell me that they understand the proper role for S&B is tanking challenging content and that DW and 2H are DPS setups.
There you go. I honestly think Battleaxes server must be bugged or something. How can someone who is a warrior, who must use Cyclone or Stormwheel Blades, on a regular basis, actually think that is does 50dam or 146 (Stormwheel) My mind is /boggled.
Yea, for me honestly, it's killing time when on the commute to work... I have around an hour to an hour and a half daily commute, so its not only a way for me to kill the time, I also live in a country where I rarely get a chance to speak native level English, so it's decent for me to continue writing as a way of keeping my language. Couple years ago, I stopped writing (as a hobby, I write short stories and such now) and didn't interact with English speakers very often, and ran into what's called Linguistic Attrition, the replacement of your native language with a second language. In short, I was forgetting words and phrases in English. I took steps to correct this over the years, and this is one solution haha! My main project right now is a screen play I'd love to get made into a movie if I ever move back to L.A., and honestly BB is beginning to influence one of the characters I had originally cast. So, he's also research! Horror movie, he's the guy that's denying the existance of ghosts, even while it's stabbing him in the eye!
I think you might want to get your mind unboggled. "From Lucy: "1H Slashing Attack for 50 with 10000% Accuracy Mod" That's right - it does ~50 damage (minor damage) to nearby targets." From Lucy - a direct quote from Lucy. "~50 damage (minor damage)" where '~' means approximately, but in this case clearly indicates that while the initial value might be 50 damage it goes up with level but still is, in the words of Lucy, "minor damage". It's not as suggested by Zalmonious something that must not be done when parsing since it would significantly distort the data (nor might I add something that would occur to me to do when parsing. I've never, and expect to never, heard a Raid Leader instruct the Warriors to "CYCLONE NOW!!" to increase DPS on a raid boss burn. I've heard it exactly once in all the time I've played EQ - vs. Coirnav with the plan being Warriors to take turns hiting Furious and Cyclone in an add reduction effort. The silliness is strong with some of y'all.) I've identified a genuine issue: An adjustment like SS intended to make Warrior 1Handers practical for use with a shield can not do the job properly with both a pure aggro augged 122+17/23 Polished Verdant Blade and a 107+1/19 + 10 DMG aug = 117+1/19 Verdant Heartpiercer. The gap between an aggro augged tanking weapon and a 10DMG augged DPS 1Hander is so great the DMG augged DPS weapon ends up "too powerful" when used with a shield creating what appears to be an unintended S&B DPS setup. And others rather than thinking about that are wallowing in DW (our traditionally best DPS setup) for tanking and Cyclone Blade 4theDPSwin !!!1111!! That sir is mind boggling.
Really? I said it would SIGNIFICANTLY skew the data? Wow! When collecting data, minimize the variables, that's like high school or junior high school science class. Bash isn't exactly significant, and for the parses I'm collecting over the next couple weeks, I'm even suggesting that bash/kick not be used. Any additional damage generated that is irrelevant to SS/ISS/Merciless Blade/Punishing Blade, etc should not be used when collecting parse damage. Duh? Or do you just like putting words in my mouth =P.
An adjustment like SS intended to make Warrior 1Handers practical for use with a shield can not do the job properly with both a pure aggro augged 122+17/23 Polished Verdant Blade and a 107+1/19 + 10 DMG aug = 117+1/19 Verdant Heartpiercer. The gap between an aggro augged tanking weapon and a 10DMG augged DPS 1Hander is so great the DMG augged DPS weapon ends up "too powerful" when used with a shield creating what appears to be an unintended S&B DPS setup. This explains everything you need to know about bb. He is basically saying that you MUST tank with a weapon that has an agro modifying aug in it whether you need it or not. Because you can tank with out one is wrong according to him. If you don't need an agro modifying aug to tank why would you use it? You should be grateful that warrior agro is evolved pass that point. Look at his magelo. He isn't using an agro modifying aug, but an ac aug. There isn't anything wrong with that, but he isn't even practicing what he just preached. You will also notice instead of responding to questions he just spews forth the same rhetoric. He would most likely be ecstatic if SOE took away the warrior class' ability to dual wield. If SOE actually listens to him and it sounds like he pm bombs them daily, you can expect your class to stagnate if not devolve.
So in short you finally confirmed somthing that was stated about a month ago but you refused to listen to us about. We were saying that due to SS S&B is doing more Damage than our DPS sets and you argued that was how it should be and yet now you notice it's a "problem"?
Nah, he's saying that a 10 damage aug combined with the shield bonus is OP.... So what we should do is remove SS, and give knight ratio'ed weapons to solve the problem... =P
Really quite the crew we have in EQ. Nope, I'm saying that issuing Warrior Only obviously intended to be tanking weapons like Midasa's Dragon Slayer and Polished Verdant Blade and either 0 DMG or light on damage 5DMG+stun or rune augs and having SS convert them into shield appropriate 1 handers is fine. Except when 1handers like Verdant Heart Piercer also exist that when used with a 10DMG aug and a shield end up as probably not intended S&B DPS setups. Resulting in the carefully called S&B, not S&B tanking, misleading parses. My parses indicate that DW DPS is greater than S&B genuine tanking (aggro augged aggro weapon) DPS. My experience has been that my tanking setup produces reasonable (pretty low actually) DPS and I have said so. A solution might be to end the DMG/DLY disparity between Warrior Only 1H tanking weapons and 1H DPS weapons, Examples: T4 Warrior Only weapon 135 DMG 23 DLY Proc - Force of Anger V! T4 WAR, BRD, RNG, ROG weapon 135 DMG 23 DLY Proc - Strike of Venom V weapon augs +10 DMG +5 DMG stun +5 DMG rune +5 DMG anger Create any weapon/aug combo. They are close enough that SS will not create a highly different DPS output result regardless of which you choose - no more S&B DPS setup. Now put together a 2 weapon DW setup using abilites to get the desired DPS output over a range of conditions. Tune 2H appropriately And tune SS so that 1-1Hander modified by SS produces in class character DPS for a class whose major occupation is tanking and typical DPS is when they are tanking DPS. That's a far cry from: Remove SS from the game give us back DW 24/7 give us back DW 23/7 More DW DPS kplsthnx (no note made of the unintended S&B DPS mode, why it exists, or any suggestion what to do about it. Little or no mention of 2H). If this makes the DW 24/7 people or the More DW DPS kplsthnx~ people right, I'm the Princess of Mars.
It makes those of us who were saying that S&B is doing more DPS than our DPS sets right. As you accused earlier I was using a T1 agro weapon and a "T0" DPS weapon and they came out almost equal since I didn't have a T1 DPS weapon at the time, and now you run your parses showing your Same Teir DPS weapon does more damage than the Tanking weapon which was our point all along. NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD DPS WITH THEIR AGRO SWORD, If you're gonna DPS you get a DPS weapon/Weapon Set and aug it apropriately. There is no way to make your precious SS determine is this a DPS weapon or an agro weapon which is why people have been advocating it be removed so our TRUE DPS sets do more DPS than S&B our Tanking Set.
Maybe it's just me but when I rolled a Warrior I saw it as I'm the "Big Damn Hero" standing in front of the boss fighting it with 2 weapons, capable of withstanding the beating that has others hiding behind a shield. That with my two swords I was helping kill it and keeping it focused on me while I could still take the full abuse it could deal. Not that I was equal to knights who had traded their skill with my weapons for their ability to cast spells but that I stood above them and in front of them in pure defensive and offensive power. And yet now here we are, in order to do our top DPS, top SURVIVAL, and top AGRO hiding behind that shield. Now we are on even footing or even BEHIND those knights that we were in front of before. And I look and wonder Just how far will we fall before we get our identity back, as the TOP TANK, the WARRIOR who stands against the greatest of foes without fear and without backing down. You can say what you want about "rolling a tank" and "Shields are heavy armor" but that doesn't change how WARRIORS were presented as the MASTERS of Weapons, cuz when it boils down to it Shields are not a true weapon.
I hope Battleaxe doesn't mind... but I've been dual wield tanking all the T2/T3 content. I even dps aug'd my 1H/Shield setup.
