Warrior DPS Burn

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Braveheart, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. Braveheart Augur

    How are the new aa/discs stacking for you? What is your new burn rotation?
  2. Fllint Elder

    Before I list my burn orders, I'll just list a few tips that will apply to these burns so I don't have to repeat them.

    1. Equip Gladiator's Plate Chestguard of War whenever you hit Fellstrike for an extra tick on the disc, and yes I know the description says it extends Mighty strike, but it actually extends the Fellstrike disc by 1 tick, not mighty strike.

    2. Start the fight off with Harassing Shout and as it repops. Its a somewhat decent debuff for melee if you ever attack from the front (attack from the back if you can though for max dps)

    3. You should always be using Battle leap as it pops UNLESS you are using Fellstrike, Intensity of the Resolute, or the new "offensive disc" b/c it does not stack with them and it is a smaller effect than those listed. When you use Battle leap try to time it right after a swing so you can try to avoid missing swings while you are flying around in the air.

    4. Use the Highest level spider's bite potion you can get your hands on.

    5. Make sure you get all the best dps buffs you have available around you, beast fero (and KF if you are grouping with a beastlord, but don't ask for it in a raid over a melee dps group or you are a terrible person :p), ranger buffs instead of brells, etc. etc. Also self buff yourself with any atk buffs, overhaste, and any dmg bonus adding illusions/familiars you have.

    6. Please don't EVER use symbol of the planemasters. The knockback from it is horrible, and you are causing problems in your group/raid if you are using it whether you realize it or not. Use Gloves of the Crimson Sigil if you want an aggro proc clicky, it has a small dd/stun but doesn't have the knockback that SOTP has.

    7. Get the best ratio 1h weapon you can get (preferably a 1hp b/c of the rog piercing debuff) and put the current best 1h dmg aug in it.

    8. Use Bash, Shield Topple rk. III, Knee Strike, and Gut punch as they pop. Try to time the last time you will be able to use Shield Topple on the burn (if the mob is under 20%) to instead use Vital Strike Rk. III. Also use Rampage and War Cry while the biggest disc of the burn is running.

    9. ONLY USE OFFENSIVE DISC if you are 100% sure you wont need to tank with Final stand for the next 4 minutes AND ONLY if the mob you are fighting doesn't have an AOE rampage (if you can't avoid it)

    Okay so now the burn orders:

    1. 60 sec or shorter fight (and Intensity of the Resolute IS up)

    A. 1st 30 seconds = Mighty Strike + Glyph of the Cataclysm + Intensity of the Resolute + 2nd Spire + Vehement rage + CoP3 clicky + Hit Wars Sheol's Heroic Blade here just for the initial round of attacks it gives. (Yes I know the buff will not land on you or do anything for this burn)

    B. 2nd 30 seconds = Brutal Onslaught

    2. 66 seconds or shorter fight (and Intensity of the Resolute is NOT up)

    A. 1st 36 seconds = Fellstrike + 2nd spire + CoP3 clicky + Wars Sheol's Heroic Blade and I'll hit Vehement rage at some point before Fellstrike fades and before i use the next disc (it doesn't stack with Fellstrike)

    B. 2nd 30 seconds = Brutal Onslaught + Battle leap as it pops

    3. Longer Fight (and Intensity of the Resolute IS up)

    A. 1st 30 seconds = Mighty Strike + Glyph of the Cataclysm + Intensity of the Resolute + 2nd Spire + Vehement Rage + CoP3 clicky

    B. 2nd 30 seconds = Brutal Onslaught

    C. After Brutal Onslaught fades hit "Offensive Disc" + War Sheol's Heroic Blade.

    D. When Heroic Rage Fades hit Glyph of the Cataclysm.

    E. When Offensive Disc fades hit Jab Through + battle leap.

    F. When Jab Through fades hit Weapon Covenant + battle leap.

    4. Longer Fight (and Intensity of the Resolute is NOT up)

    A. 1st 30 Seconds = Brutal Onslaught + 2nd spire + Vehement Rage + CoP3 clicky + battle leap

    B. 2nd 36 Seconds = Fellstrike + Wars Sheol's Heroic Blade

    C. After Fellstrike fades hit "Offensive Disc"

    D. When Heroic Rage fades hit Glyph of the Cataclysm.

    E. When Offensive Disc fades hit Jab Through + battle leap

    F. When Jab Through fades hit Weapon Covenant + battle leap.
    guado and Nissko like this.
  3. Fllint Elder

    Forgot to mention a couple of things.

    1. Use rage of rallos if you have some kind of dmg proc in your weapon at the start of your burns
    2. On group mobs use Imperator's Precision on the mob (your procs and other people's nukes/dots will hit harder)
  4. Sathayorn Augur

    Personally, I find that Wild Rampage isn't reason enough to not use Offensive discipline - Never really does much damage, I go from needing a heal to needing a heal. Single target rampage, however, is something I would definitely avoid while running offensive.

    My burn order differs slightly
    1: Second spire, Fellstrike, Heroic Blade
    2: Offensive Discipline as soon as Fellstrike ends
    3: Vehement rage, Brutal Onslaught
    4: Jab Through as Brutal ends
    5: Offensive Discipline

    On shorter fights I usually find no need to burn, my timers are better saved for later.
  5. warbeast New Member

    I am trying to compact some disc to free up some hot button but I dont seem to be able to /disc Brutal Onslaught Discipline. Nothing happen with Brutal or starting with Onslaught. any clue?
  6. Zaknaffein Augur

    /disc brutal onslaught discipline rk. III

    Change the rank of the disc if you don't have rank III

    Fliint has a pretty good write-up there with a lot of situational orders there and what stacks with what. I have my basic three dps keys and a mash key though that I use for DPS for most the time. I use Offensive disc sparingly though at the end if the fight is going smoothly enough to I know I won't be tanking.

    First Key
    1. /alt activate 800
    2. /alt activate 1401
    3. /alt activate 611
    4. /alt activate 2012
    5. /alt activate 2007
    Second Key:
    1. /alt activate 611
    2. /alt activate 487
    3. /pause 4, /disc brutal onslaught discipline rk. III
    4. /timer 9000
    Third Key:
    1. /alt activate 611
    2. /alt activate 7019
    3. /disc fellstrike discipline
    4. /timer 15000
    My Mash Key:
    1. /doability 3
    2. /alt activate 3732
    3. /alt activate 801
    4. /alt activate 15073
    5. /disc shield topple rk. III
  7. Brosa Augur

    Had to visit this before the Elidroth changes take effect.
    I've always dummy parsed Brutal Onslaught higher then Mighty Strike. The only difference being I don't use a circle of power clicky (CoP3 Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 120% with All Skills) which doesn't seam to be able to stack with Mighty Strike (Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 10000% with All Skills), although I'm assuming it lasts up to 3 minutes like similar clickies, and I use Rage of Rallos Zek on the 1st 30 second line.

    War Cry? The Group Fear Immunity (60.00 sec) War Cry?

    /alt activate 2012 Imperitors Charge (slot 3: Increase Attack Speed by 35%: does not stack with other spell attack hastes) and not Imperitors Precision (Increase incoming spell damage damage by 30%: does not effect raid targets)? I assume the later also effects weapon effects and damage procs.

    I do not raid so I speak from a groupers point of view. Also I box a Shaman and sometimes named fights last much longer then a usual group when I don't have my guildies to back me up. The longest named fight I've had was in VoA that lasted nearly 12 minutes so its imperative that at times I use a mixture of defense and offensive abilities to last throughout an encounter. The following start defensive which I know isn't the topic of the thread but ends up on topic.

    #1 defensive: Last stand disc, , Commanding Voice disc(Mash on Refresh), Field Guardian disc(Mash on Refresh), Resplendent Glory, Brace for Impact.

    #2 defensive Barbed Tongue, Mark of the Magehunter

    Once Last Stand fades.....

    #3 defensive: clicky Latent Etheric Breastplate of Havok, Warlords Tenacity, Warlords Bravery, Blade Guardian, Third Spire (depending on how good I feel about the encounter)

    #1 offensive (if fight lasts long enough): Intensity of the resolute, Brutal Onslaught Disc, Vehement Rage, Second Spire (if available), Rage of Rallos Zek .....( sometimes I hit #1 Offense during #3 Defense depending on the encounter) Glyph of the Cataclysm (mainly for the proc dmg modifier)

    #2 offense Mighty Strike , Wars Sheol's Heroic Blade

    #1 OMG damn really this fight is lasting this long: Hold the Line, Last Stand disc (if refreshed), Third Spire (if refreshed)

    All feed back is welcome.
  8. Kamea Augur

    After the changes go into effect, the best burn order will be this:

    AFK melee until the mob is <20%, then put up intensity, vehement, 2nd spire, COP3, and disc brutal. Then hit heroic blade and vital strike and do 2mil damage thanks to the new 2H damage boost, then go back to AFKing. If Shiftie is in your raid, he'll see your 100k dps parse, then go to forums and call for warrior DPS nerfs.

    It's sad that heroic blade is so much of our burn DPS these days that there are times where it's more worthwhile to use it during brutal even though you don't get the recourse, that is because the buff (which basically is brutal) isn't put on you in time to boost your crit damage, so you need the crit mod from brutal to get 400k+ crits, which could very well be 600k+ crits after the changes.

    What's harmtouch?
  9. Fllint Elder

    Mighty Strike + 7th + glyph of cata is way more dps than Brutal Onslaught. You get a Ton from the glyph on mighty strike because you are using the benefit from it on every single swing. Also, glyph does not land at all when you have brutal onslaught up (aka it drops as soon as you hit brutal onslaught for that burn order). If you aren't maxed AA and able to use glyphs then this will probably be different, as I don't ever use mighty strike unless unless I am glyphing (and usually hitting 7th too).

    The reason you use War Cry is because it does an AOE attack like rampage when you use it.
    Kuvani likes this.
  10. Brosa Augur

    Fllint after running several parses I find you are spot on for your burn orders. Have adjusted my macros accordingly but this does only apply to burns when you are not main tank or needing to tank at some point during the encounter.
    So those out there that find themselves tanking in a group and you have exhausted your primary defense and have to burn to help finish off a named this is what you want.
    Brutal Onslaught
    Barbed Tongue: should already be running with 2 minutes remaining (shares timer with Mighty Strike)
    Vehement Rage: the -25% healing effectiveness can be offset by secondary defenses, chest clicky ect (does not stack with Hold the Line)
    Rage of Rallos Zek
    2nd Spire (if available)
  11. Morgoth Elder

    On your mash key what do you have assigned to /doability 3?
    Also, do you mash this key when tanking?
  12. Zaknaffein Augur

    That would be Bash, and yes I use it all the time, even when tanking.

    I have altered my DPS keys as well slightly:

    "super DPS" (when 7th is up) * you can add pauses to the beginning of the line if everything isn't firing on the first time you hit your keys.
    1. /alt activate 7019
    2. /alt activate 1401
    3. /alt activate 800
    4. /alt activate 487
    5. /disc mighty strike discipline

    Then I hit my 2nd DPS key when 7th is up and Mighty strike fades. * I have some overlap but that's because I don't feel like making more than 5 keys just for DPS burns when 7th is only going to be used once a night.
    1. /alt activate 611
    2. /alt activate 1401
    3. /alt activate 800
    4. /disc brutal onslaught discipline rk. III
    5. /timer 9000

    Then I use my third Key when Brutal onslaught fades.
    1. /alt activate 7019
    2. /alt activate 611
    3. /disc offensive discipline rk. III
    4. /alt activate 2007
    5. -empty-

    When I don't have 7th up (what I will use most of the time)
    1. /alt activate 611
    2. /alt activate 1401
    3. /alt activate 800
    4. /disc brutal onslaught discipline rk. III
    5. /timer 9000

    Then I will hit me next key when Brutal fades:
    1. /disc fellstrike discipline
    2. /alt activate 2007
    3. /disc vital strike rk. III
    4. /timer 1500
    5. -empty-

    Then I hit my Offensive key when Fellstrike fades
    1. /alt activate 7019
    2. /alt activate 611
    3. /disc offensive discipline rk. III
    4. /alt activate 2007
    5. -empty-

    These are still a work in progress at the moment as I just changed them up a bit a few days ago, seeing how they work here.
  13. Brohg Augur

    So if I proposed adding in Prophet's Gift of the Ruchu that I frequently get to abuse via bot shm...
  14. Dueceduece Lorekeeper

    For group burns
    1. Use best agro abilities
    2. Use defensive type disc
    3. Set a dps merc to burn

    For raids
    1. Either tank and hold agro
    2. If not tanking, just auto attack and wait to tank
    3. Let real dps classes DPS

    your +10-20k dps on burn is useless, come to terms that you are a tank and not a dps class.

    But if you really want to "try" to dps then Zaknaffien's hotkeys work well for a warrior.
  15. Kamea Augur

    If your burn only adds 20k DPS over S&B melee, you're doing something wrong. A burn should add closer to 40k-60k DPS over S&B melee over the duration of the discs. Lets round down and say a raid has 6 warriors, 1 tanking 5 DPSing adding 40k with a burn. That adds up to +200k DPS added by people just clicking 3-4 hotkeys, that's like adding another rogue to your raid. That's not counting knights too.

    If your reaction times are so slow that you can't safely carry out a burn rot and be able to immediately switch to tanking, you should focus more on that than worrying about who's burning. Granted, there is one legitimate problem, the fact FoA doesn't work with 2H. If for some reason you can't cast def prof and 2H prof is up, your FoA tag won't work. But as long as your cast 2H buff before the fight and be mindful of silence, you should be ok, worst case scenario you can use DW (which does work with FoA.)

    People who are top tier players know how to maximize their character no matter what they're doing. The best tanks I know, regardless of class, have always done top level DPS when they wanted to. Heck, the best clerics I know could tell you plenty about their DPS burns too. This isn't to say there are tanks that can DPS well but can't tank well, there are. But from my experience, top tier players can do it all.

    I'd go as far to say that if you're a warrior who's not a) tanking the boss b) tanking adds or c) immediate backup on a mob that blurs/FDs/banishs/etc, you're doing a disservice to the raid by not maximizing your DPS. Lets be real, guilds have a crapload of warriors and during times without multiple adds/bosses, the only immediate benefit to the extra wars is DPS.
  16. Dueceduece Lorekeeper

    It is one thing to know what to do and have the ability to do it. IMO it is just a waste of time and effort. In you example you show how we can add +200k dps to the raid for say 1 minute. For me, I just raid with 4 warrior and replace the other 2 with dps classes who can maintain 70-100k more dps each for the entire duration of the raid. Please show me any tank parse on an entire TDS raid where they parsed higher then 40k. Being a warrior, I would like to see a warrior parsing higher then 20k for an entire event. If you really believe that you doing a burn is helping you win events by all means continue to use your burns. I use my offensive discs while not tanking too for "fun" not because I think it really matters. My entire dps of say 4 million on an event is null when the actual dps classes can collectively do that much dps in less than 4 seconds.

    As for groups I would rather maximize dps in the group setting and only have 1 tank in group. As for my experience groups tend to have mercs making up a portion of the group. I normally use a heal merc so taking addition damage by using offensive discs actually lowers the amount of mobs we kill over an extended period because the merc has to med or we have to swap mercs. I would rather use my defensive discs to allow the merc to regen mana at the same rate its using mana.

    By all means is it good for a mechanic to know how to use all the tools in their toolbox. But you will find that most mechanics only use a portion of their tools the majority of their time.
  17. Ravengloome Augur

    Yeh it must be hard to burn when pets are tanking.
  18. Phrovo1 Augur

    Dat bow dps dude. But yeah, it's sad when people are only good at 1 thing so when them doing that 1 thing is already being done/them doing it would be a waste (i.e. druids or chanters sitting on their hands during a burn event like Vitio). If you were a raid leader, who would you rather bench, someone solid at only their job or someone who is multitalented/does more than expected and still does their job when needed? Every little bit adds up and dpsing is the most important job on a raid imho.
  19. Dueceduece Lorekeeper

    I just Lawlz...
    Do you raid end game? This isn't 2001 anymore when a tank lost agro or died and any class could tank for 6 seconds before the next tank got a successful taunt. If you are a tank on a raid then your job is to tank, why have DPS envy and try to dps?

    While your being all macho showing everyone your uber parse of 16k, real dps die. It is more beneficial to the raid if you understand your role and exceed at it.

    A tanks job is to tank and holding agro over everyone else. If you are not tanking then you should actively make sure you are prepared to snap agro the split second the tank dies. If your raid has too many tanks standing around then they are wasting dps spots.

    Like you said dps is important so you make a raid with a specific amount of each class to optimize the raid. If you have time to burn and run around trying to make a parse then your RL sucks or you need to recruit more to optimize your raids.

    The sad thing is that there is a major difference on knowing how to optimize your so called dps and actually using it. I choose not to super mega burn a whopping 1 million dmg with a warrior burn that took 1 minute of my time when a wizzy / monk can do that with a single nuke/kick. I would rather use that minute to ensure I am second on agro and that I am best prepared to save a dps class. If you focus your efforts on keeping mobs off DPS then you gain 10x the dps you lose from not burning.

    Go app to a raid guild and run around trying to make a parse while letting dps die and see how well your received.
  20. p2aa Augur

    And I would add even more with brutal TDS raids events, where wars can suddenly die to some brutal hits of raid boss.
    Better be ready to tank with Shield Proficiency up if the 2 former tanks in the TO die , instead of going hit AE from Boss with your 2H weapon trying to burn dps and taking a lot of dmg.
    You can tell me you are the fastest warrior to swap from 2H in 1H shield + board in a few sec the time to click your bandolier and switching the proficiency, if the raid boss proceeds to wipe your wars before you, who will be faster to avoid the raid boss to wipe through your dps ? the war ready with 1H + shield or the war with 2H ?