War Ranged Hate

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Valdest, Jun 23, 2021.

  1. shiftie Augur

    2/3 of tanks have instant aggro
    2/3 tanks have range on their aggro

    You want range on your aggro as qol but say the tank asking for instant is delusional … ok

    This is why he responded the way he did.
  2. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    I am not making it an us vs them thing. He started it off that way, and we all knew it, including you. Its pretty apparent from his posting history (and then he made it even more clear by his subsequent posts in this thread).

    I don't care if warrior hate is given better range. I do care that we have 3 tanks and 2 of them have far superior aggro and a class maven from one of those wants to upgrade theirs further in a grass is greener comparison context, without taking a look at all the greenery they have on their side of the fence.

    How about we talk about how roar for warriors is bugged and producing FAR more aggro than it should, if we really want to be honest?
  3. Chaosflux Augur

    Protest is instant, crushes need to be instant and we've been asking for almost a decade, and yes that is a QOL change. Stuns easily could to but no one any good uses them.
  4. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Why wouldn't you use sincere force if you wanted to max aggro?
  5. Chaosflux Augur

    Yeh i guess thats a fair point i was more thinking lesson and force of derp, I haven't memmed those since like VOA.
  6. Chaosflux Augur

    Though the gain from weaving sincere in is miniscule (do you even have time to cast it?)

    Crush crush protest valiant on a multibind with free casting splash/twinheal, protective, burst/remonstrate how often are you even using sincere force? Like I guess if all I was doing was spamming purely aggro stuff I'd have time, but with protest at 3.5s recast its popping up and playing whack a mole with self heals I don't think it would get a very high cast volume

    If it were say in a crush crush protest valiant sincere force multibind?
  7. Szilent Augur

    since just Valiant and any two of Protective-Protest-Remonstrate is already full time casting, anything else you want to cast just goes ahead of those. I imagine if one were going deep on agro, it might be a multibind like Valiant-Crush-Crush-Sincere-Requiem-Protest-Protective?

    Total sideline, in the testing done for this
    (also yes let's talk about that, it's interesting to know The Real Story)
    how did Requiem stack up? is it variably generating agro for the 5.5k/9.5k versions?
  8. Wulfhere Augur

    It has a 20% chance to cast Requiem Trigger that is a debuff and hence 20% chance to add a bit more +hate vs undead.
  9. Wulfhere Augur

    Maybe not? If one notices that Kragek's Roar has a hate mod e.g. +13914 at Rk. III.
  10. Bigstomp Augur

    I don't know knights well, but I feel all 3 tank classes should have some insta cast abilities for aggro.
    If one doesn't, that should be fixed (along with warrior range)
    Skuz and Nennius like this.
  11. Chaosflux Augur

    It creates base damage hate

    On undead it creates 9500 live its 5000, rough numbers not staring at the parser, the autocast undead recourse is like very little if any extra hate in the testing I've done. Atleast the last time I tested it, thats how it worked. Granted testing it is difficult, because some undead body type mobs have different aggro rules than standard mobs, so it adds a layer of workings to the testing.

    At one point (for along time actually) it was bugged and gave the undead base damage hate value on all target types and double that value on undead that was fixed along time ago tho (around TDS when they fixed Disruptive and crush hate values). Same thing with glorious/denouncement lines and their undead/live values.

    That was why from like HOT through to the end of COTF it was so much more effective aggro wise to just use all the nukes and disregard things like the isolated timer stun or force of disruption. Regrettably thats not how it works now.

    For the instant thing that has been a sticking point for along time for paladins, and the aggro range thing is an obvious sticking point for warriors, there's really no reason both of those shouldn't be fixed, especially at this point in the game and how people play in today's EQ.
    Warpeace likes this.
  12. Warpeace Augur

    This really needs to be considered for both classes and implemented.
    Bigstomp likes this.
  13. p2aa Augur

    All SK aggro spells are instant cast ? I very doubt it. Beside terror and you could argue their Dissident spell which does aggro + DPS, which other aggro spell is instant ?

    This is in no way comparable change. Making all knight aggro spell instant cast is much more powerful than increasing the range of warrior disc, from 100 to 200.

    That would be nice to extend the range, but I don't care if they don't do it because some paladins are crying. I will just wait a little longer that mob is in range and my aggro disc will fire.

    Can you say the same about the change you ask ? I guess not, because you know how much better it would make your class.

    One aggro line of spell instant cast, ok, but all lines of aggro spells, lol no that's OP. Valiant and Stuns instant cast lol.

    Yes, you did start it and make it a knight versus warrior warfare, trolling a thread which is speaking of war ranged hate. Trying to portray me intentions is pathetic, there was none when I did post about range.

    Oh sure, please enlighten us on what is the bug on this disc. If it's hate mod complain, it has been on this line of disc since forever. For information, the 13 914 hate mod of the disc is just the initial aggro it applies, then a 6 500 hate over time per tick is applied.

    Let's take your aggro over time spell, Protest, which is instant cast I read, it's producing 19 598 hate on initial aggro, then 15 242 hate over time per tick, with a much faster recast time,lol.
    Dre. likes this.
  14. Warpeace Augur

    Your really looking at that in the wrong light. But this is not unexpected with your posing history because some filthy knight would get something beneficial.

    So with that rational why would I ever support Warrior extended agro while my class is gimped with cast times on the majority of our agro abilities, we already have global cool down to deal with.

    I guess I will simply support Warriors asking for / getting extensions to their agro abilities because I actually know some good Warriors and can sympathize for having an ability that is in your tool kit but severely lacking in function with your fellow tanks.
  15. Wulfhere Augur

    You have the effect values flipped.
  16. Triconix Augur

    How is it bugged?
  17. p2aa Augur

    I'm all for changes, when they are reasonable in term of class balance.
    I consider that knights having all their aggro spells being instant cast is a major class balance change.

    To be in line with SK, make crushs instant cast if you want to compare with SK's terror, but all aggro spells ? I find this too much.

    Warriors fire discs, knights cast spells, spells have for most of them a cast time.

    Gimped on aggro ? I don't understand : Protest generate 35 k aggro on first tick, then 20 k aggro every 6 sec, the recast time is 3,5 sec, global cooldown 1,75 sec, so the spell will be back up after 2 global cooldowns ? Don't even have to wait for the 5 tick of the first protest, to recast it to generate again 35 k aggro.
    I haven't really looked, but seems to me it lands on most mobs ? Does it get interrupt much ?

    Anyhow, you are casting a spell aggro multibind I assume, so with the crushs, valiant and FoD AA, added to protest spell, paladins have still aggro problems ?
  18. Spacemonkey555 Lorekeeper

    Protest line is magic -50 and has a focus AA to make it instant.
  19. Wulfhere Augur

    ... and Protest is only 235 mana. After the improvements made to in the past couple of years, I declared it the new yaulp for paladins. It's designed to be kept on cool down now although I'm not sure many paladins are doing that (in favor of more traditional hate spam).
  20. Chaosflux Augur

    Yeh that's generally how I use it, usually falling into a pattern of valiant > honor > nukeheal with protective woven in to refresh its recourse(if no penitence/armor or mantle going) I do think the honor recourse should be evaluated because it does blow off very fast.

    Also the micromanagement of maintaining short recourse buffs that only last a round or less in some cases is kind of not really fun, but that's outside the scope of this thread.
    Skuz, Warpeace and Wulfhere like this.