War/Pal IRC chats 10/12

Start of #eqaachat buffer: Mon Dec 10 17:54:58 2012
* Elidroth (Elidroth@184.89.177.24) has joined #EQAAChat
<11Shang> elidroth darling
<11@Elidroth> hmm.. lots of non-warrior/paladin here
<11Augok> I'm a warrior hey Elidroth good to see you again
<11Beezy_Luclin> I'm doing this from passenger seat in a car on an iPad
<11Beezy_Luclin> Turning out to be a pita
<11shiftee> people like to read the chats!
<11Reht> I stayed in a holiday inn express once
<11Shang> I mostly want to see who the Zerkinn of each class is
<11@Elidroth> nothing like a little motion sickness to go along with your EQ discussion.. lol
<11Beezy_Luclin> Wish I had wifi 3G sucks
<11Beezy_Luclin> Hahaha
<11Fatbuk> two Ks in Zerkkin, sir
<11Shang> Sorry cap'n.
<11Augok> well I'm only here for about an hour... then afking in here... darn guild raids
<11shiftee> i logged in early to see how the format was going to work
<11Shang> uh, with it being public, I imagine it being a free for all, and elidroth shouting "NO" in spontaneous directions, and getting confused by random rangers demanding Headshot every 15 minutes.
<11@Elidroth> clearly the headshot hysteria was just that since on almost every server, a ranger was the 1st to hit 100
<11Shang> I headshotted nearly all of my levels, won't lie to you.
<11@Elidroth> I know
<11Rhymez> Why not just give every class a HS ability?
<11Shang> Creepy..
<11Augok> I XPd all my levels... 2 days to get there.. was only just behind an SK
<11Shang> Because then you'd steal the Rangers' camps.
<11Rhymez> rangers can eat it
<11shiftee> the HS nerf was people looking to the future
<11shiftee> the hysteria tha tis
<11shiftee> that is*
<11@Elidroth> alright.. enough ranger talk
<11@Elidroth> time to get started
<11shiftee> it still works in XP zones currently so of course they were going to make good xp
<11@Elidroth> Today is Warrior and Paladin
<11Beezy> Just won 100 bucks in a bet with my uncle lol
<11@Elidroth> If people clutter up the discussion with other classes and such, I will ban you from the channel and you will NOT be allowed back in, even for your class' day
<11Rhymez> do you want suggestions or what we think about your suggestions?
<11@Elidroth> if we're to get anything done, we need to remain on topic
<11@Elidroth> I'm looking for suggestions from you guys
<11@Elidroth> I want to know where YOU want the class to go
<11Beezy> For paladin any chance another rank of bale fire burst to make it instant cast? That is our fade ability
<11shiftee> elidroth, are you opening it up to both classes right now?
<11shiftee> or are you wanting wars to go first
<11@Elidroth> both classes
<11@Elidroth> I'm ok with mixing it up a bit.
<11@Elidroth> I HAD thought of bringing SK's into this and making it a tank day, but decided not to
<11Augok> I'd say preface it with the class so taht we dont get confused
<11shiftee> well i've got a list or 2 from paladins
<11@Elidroth> Beezy.. I wouldn't be against lowering it by half to .25 sec, but I'm not going to go instant cast on that
<11Beezy> Ok thank you
<11shiftee> speaking of class direction, (paladins) one of the major issues the class has right now is mana consumption and we are open to various ideas to fix it
<11@Elidroth> Is everyone awake? LOL.. I figured I'd get hammered with things
<11Augok> Warrior - Spell Stun immunity - Idea from TSW (I'm just relaying it)
<11Beezy> Well doing from iPad makes it difficult when I lose signal
<11@Elidroth> Shiftee - I'm not against looking into it at all, but it's something I'd want to talk with Aristo about before I made any movement
<11shiftee> 1. Spell casting mastery rk 4 never got put in for hybrids - 2. Yaulp is only 35 mana /tic 3. we are missing a quiet miracle type ability
<11@Elidroth> Augok - I might be open to a better chance to resist, but I'm not going to go full immunity
<11shiftee> are you opposed to paladins getting a burst mana recovery ability?
<11@Elidroth> Spell casting mastery rk 4 I can do. Yaulp is something I can upgrade, but don't expect huge jumps.
<11@Elidroth> You're not missing a quiet miracle, I just haven't given it to you
<11shiftee> if you aren't then I've heard many paladins want a virtual copy of the cleric quiet miracle to fall in line with the sk Mana tap from last year
<11shiftee> well one of the ideas presented was something akin to this
<11shiftee> every 12 minutes we can cast Inquisitors Judgement - which gives us a DPS proc
<11@Elidroth> again, that falls into something I want to discuss with Aristo. So I'm not saying no, but I'm not saying yes either
<11shiftee> Karana's Thunder - Imbue proc like IJ on the same timer that allows us to proc a greatly reduced DPS proc with an autocast of 500 mana. Allowing us to proc out 10000 mana return over 1 min every 12 minutes.
<11Augok> Warrior - Scars of the Mage Hunter: Passive, large chance to resist incoming DD's (reduces situations of big melee round + big spell damage = instantly dead tank) - (TSW idea)
<11shiftee> which is a little more than a mod rod but gives us a chance to get some mana back
<11@Elidroth> Shiftee - that's something doable, but again, I want to work with Aristo on that to make sure I'm not stepping on anything he might be doing
<11shiftee> ok
<11shiftee> with no offense intended our spells have been very spread sheet for mana, and with the reduced effectiveness of the shawl it really highlights a problem the class has with mana
<11@Elidroth> Augok - I'm not sure that's necessary. Most scripted big nukes specifically do not target the main tank if they are also dealing with high melee damage
<11shiftee> and those without the shawl really feel the pain.
<11@Elidroth> Shiftee - Everyone says that. People make that spreadsheet claim as if it's a bad thing
<11@Elidroth> things have to have reasonable progression/upgrades
<11shiftee> it is a bad thing, when things are otherwise stagnated that balance the equations
<11@Elidroth> then get the shawl
<11shiftee> it was nerfed
<11shiftee> and the stagnation
<11Tura> Would a self only Quiet Miracle for paladins be out of the question like cleric one but self only ?
<11shiftee> vs mana pool gains
<11Beezy-again> Self only quiet miracle would be nice
<11@Elidroth> please read up. that question has been answered already for the most part
<11Augok> Warrior - Brash attacks: Hatemod that stacks with items (opposite of subtle blows/spell casting subtlety) - (TSW idea)
<11Beezy-again> Sorry I must be delayed lol
<11Shang> Would simply adding "Secondary Forte" to Paladins allow them to gain a Specialization skill in casting?
<11shiftee> paladins have no primary forte
<11Shang> Correct.
<11@Elidroth> Augok - we have some other ideas for Warrior hate generation right now
<11@Elidroth> especially a new idea to augment the taunt skill
<11@Elidroth> to make it more useful
<11Augok> want me to strike the other agro based ones off the list then?
<11Beezy-again> What about a group armor of the inquisitor? Right now paladins have the self only, would you be opposed to giving us a group version?
<11shiftee> armor of the inquisitor is a healing mod + ac gain (self only)
<11Beezy-again> Ty shiftee hard to pull data on 3G service lol
<11Tharkis> The one warrior thing that I was asked to bring up is more of a warrior positioning thing than agro managment. Was asked if warriors could get an AA similar to but much much smaller scale / shorter reuse, divine call or hate's attraction to help them keep an NPC they're tanking in spot / position when it's being beaten on all sides by pets and melee push.
<11Tharkis> something that they can hit to just pull the mob towards them a step or two and not a big jump /pull or /push
<11shiftee> nps i dont' expect him to have a full list of every abbreviation we use or name of every spell off the top of his head
<11Finalstand> hello
<11@Elidroth> I'm not sure of Group Armor
<11@Elidroth> I'll think about it
<11Beezy-again> Ok
<11Finalstand> We on warriors paladins or both ?
<11Beezy-again> Both
<11@Elidroth> Tharkis, I'm ok with the positioning idea. I can do some interesting stuff with that too
<11shiftee> one of the other class directions is the ability for paladins to enter into a burst healing role at the cost of dps and potentially tanking. So that we can make the trade off for a short duration saves the day type thing if a merc goes down or something.
<11shiftee> one of the ideas
<11shiftee> to address this was
<11shiftee> Karana's Surge - +12 charges of twinheal, 30% boosted crit heal rate, 5% parry, -1000% accuracy, -50% all skills mod. On the same timer as valorous rage. 3 ranks @ 12 TH, 10% crit rate 5% parry, all the debuffs stay the same for each rank.
<11Tharkis> Cool. I know some of the warriors I play with get frustrated with being unable to reposition mobs themselves on raids when it's far easier for pallies /sks to do so. Thanks =)
<11@Elidroth> hehe.. that gets dangerously close to specs.. something I've wanted to do for awhile now but just don't have a good way to handle it
<11@Elidroth> without a lot of code time
<11Tharkis> (although i see more pallies and SK's use those 2 abilities for pulling mobs rather than while actually tanking, and the war who asked me to bring it up wants it as a tanking skill not a pulling tool)
<11@Elidroth> I'm not against something like that, but the refresh will not be 'nice'
<11Finalstand> What we could really use for positioning is an almost instant non ae type of forceful attraction
<11shiftee> the idea was to tie it to our burst dps ability
<11shiftee> and that is on a 20 minute timer
<11Finalstand> the refreshes on that grappling and press the attack is so long I now have hotkeys announcing for others to help me reposition
<11@Elidroth> yeah
<11shiftee> but if you want to make the recast extremely long
<11shiftee> that would work too but would make more sense to not link them
<11@Elidroth> no.. tieing it to VR is ok
<11shiftee> ok
<11shiftee> the numbers could be worked with etc
<11@Elidroth> I just need to see if the spell effects would actually work correctly
<11shiftee> but the crippling of our melee is meant so that we can't tank and dps and heal at the same time
<11@Elidroth> some things currently don't allow for neg numbers and resolve everything as a 1 - random(x)
<11Finalstand> I actually have a hotkey for every direction Please help me move %t North and etc for every possible direction
<11Tharkis> @Finalstand: that's more or less what i was aksed to ask for. they wanted a 2 or 3 second reuse 1 or 2 step 'pull towards me' ability to keep a mob in one spot while they're tanking it. Anyhow that's all I have for pallies / wars =)
<11@Elidroth> I know shiftee
<11shiftee> cool, I know there are some effects in game via mob debuffs
<11shiftee> i'm sure we could come to some middle ground on how to cripple the effects of melee
<11@Elidroth> yeah, but there are trouble spots with players casting those sorts of things on themselves sometimes
<11shiftee> gotcha
<11@Elidroth> need to play with it
<11shiftee> i'll let you answer FS etc before I bring up another pal idea
<11@Elidroth> Tharkis actually asked for basically the same thing FS did
<11Finalstand> I was just mentioning that because it was already in process it took me a little bit to figure this irq thing out
<11@Elidroth> one sec.. I need to grab a bottle of water
<11shiftee> speaking of positioning abilities... Divine call is a slow push ability akin to compliant lurch (chanter) that we got last expansion it pulls a mob to us for positioning but it actually pulls the mob through us and gives the mob our back exposing us to some vicious melee rounds, any way around that mechanic ?
<11@Elidroth> back
<11WaeSheol> Morning
<11@Elidroth> no shiftee
<11Terminat> same thing happens with hate's attraction
<11shiftee> ok
<11@Elidroth> we have no way to adjust where the mob lands
<11shiftee> with that said
<11shiftee> I was asked to mention a reduction timer and an extension timer for that ability
<11Terminat> take current position of caster and put it just in front of that position i would think...
<11shiftee> reduction in recast from 2 min and an extension in duration for a 1tic or so
<11Finalstand> or add a small press the attack type ability to the end of it
<11@Elidroth> I'd do hastened divine call - 3 ranks, 10 sec per rank
<11shiftee> awesome thanks
<11Beezy-again> I'll take that thanks
<11shiftee> So......
<11shiftee> last year you were working with code to get free target abilities to work with the AA system
<11@Elidroth> and.. yeah.. I'll give you an additional tick as well
<11shiftee> did you get an answer to that?
<11@Elidroth> no change on that Shiftee
<11shiftee> in that case
<11shiftee> can paladins get a battle leap ability PLEASE
<11shiftee>
<11@Elidroth> why?
<11shiftee> to move between mobs quickly
<11shiftee> we got speed of the savior to help with that issue last expansion but the recast is long
<11shiftee> and you forgot to put the hate mod onto the ability
<11@Elidroth> forgot?
<11shiftee> and instead of asking for hastened speed of the savior (since it isn't really fair for paladins to have spirit of the cheetah
<11@Elidroth> you have enough ways to draw hate that you don't need it
<11shiftee> at a low recast time
<11shiftee> we do, but you said yes to the hate mod and then didn't put it on
<11Terminat> yeah, pals out agro sks now
<11shiftee> so that seemed liek "forgot"
<11shiftee> instead of intentional
<11shiftee> if it was intentional that is fine too.
<11shiftee> however A battle leap ability is desired greatly
<11@Elidroth> I'm sure
<11shiftee> we don't want the dmg mod
<11shiftee> just the leap*
<11@Elidroth> I suppose I can do that
<11Finalstand> So have you considered the suggestion to help our swing hate via the ferocity and burst of power I know it would give us a little bit of dps but the swing hate from it is what I would like also does twinproc really have a hate cap of 85 ? and could you consider raising that for anger procs ?
<11krozman> hey all
<11Beezy-again> Any chance paladins could get a hastened marrs salvation to lower recast, or an extended to increase duration? That is our deaggro mod aa
<11shiftee> -14% right now if you time it right you can keep it on 2 casters
<11@Elidroth> Twinproc has no effect on hate
<11Beezy-again> What shiftee said
<11Beezy-again> Ugh doing this on iPad is such a pita lol
<11Terminat> first world problems ;p
<11Beezy-again> Lol
<11shiftee> lol
<11Augok> Warriors have hastened grappling strike but no hastened press the attack for those small positionings (I use both a lot) any chance of getting those two down to the same refresh time? (own request should hopefully be an easy one)
<11@Elidroth> I'm actually working on an ability idea to make taunt useful again, and that ties into hate generation as well, so we'll see
<11Terminat> ^^
<11Finalstand> Well taunt really int the issue its more of how often you hit the npc we lost so much going to sword and board in that department
<11Finalstand> We lost the hit and all the effects from the procs
<11@Elidroth> I'm ok with hastened press the attack
<11shiftee> speaking of aggro generation, this is the annual paladins need more ae aggro service announcement...
<11@Elidroth> I don't have a way to increase your innate hate generation from basic melee attacks
<11Terminat> negative
<11@Elidroth> unfortunately that's something that's buried in code
<11shiftee> can you look at lowering the recast of beacon of righteousness further and bring it down from 1.5 minutes
<11@Elidroth> you don't need more hate Shiftee
<11@Elidroth> sorry
<11shiftee> :/
<11Terminat> paladins are out agroing sks
<11Terminat> which is bs
<11shiftee> ^ is not relevant
<11Beezy-again> What about my question above elidroth?
<11Finalstand> I have noticed also it seems now our Krondel roar is not refreshing as fast as voas line was is that because we didn't get a type 3 or ?
<11@Elidroth> no it just didn't get added to hastened bazu roar.. that'll be fixed in the patch
<11Finalstand> ok I was curious
<11krozman> Sorry if this was answered i was 20 min late to the chat, but is there an intent to update the ranks of paladin DPS AA, such as Disruptive Persecution, tactical mastery, speed of the knight, etc?
<11shiftee> DP is getting upgraded in the upcoming patch
<11shiftee> the others elidroth will have to answer i haven't made it that far in the list of requests
<11krozman> and i assume things like Finishing Blow will get added in too
<11@Elidroth> I'm ok with Hastened Marr's Salvation, but I'm not going to take it down very far. I'd be ok with 3 minute reduction down to 7 min
<11@Elidroth> no Kroz
<11Beezy-again> I'll take that
<11Beezy-again> Thank you elidroth
<11shiftee> wouuld you consider upping the %modification on it?
<11krozman> oh? no more finishing blow?
<11@Elidroth> Finishing Blow, Anatomy, Headshot are not getting upgrades this expansion
<11shiftee> increasing it from -14% to maybe -20%?
<11krozman> guess those mobs in breeding grounds that run get extra dps when they die haha
<11krozman> run i mean
<11WaeSheol> For warriors id really like to see a Hastend line added to Rage of Rallos, currently is none and is about a half hour recast is that some thing thats reasonable?
<11@Elidroth> on what Shiftee?
<11shiftee> Marrs salvation
<11shiftee> it is currently -14% aggro
<11@Elidroth> ah.. I could create a new rank of it
<11shiftee> cool
<11Beezy-again> That would be awesome

<11@Elidroth> one sec Wars
<11Beezy-again> Still hasten also correct?
<11@Elidroth> yes
<11Beezy-again> Excellent
<11shiftee> i have a question regarding how much you can hasten something also. Is it true you can only hasten someting to 1/2?
<11Finalstand> I am pretty happy with my warrior atm our weapon set ups still need looking into to be a bit more balanced (which isn't your department completely) Positioning is a big problem right now , our mitigation gap was but you gave us 5 more phalanx of 1 so I am kinda stoked about that raging servants still produce way too much hate though. Hastened Unbroken Attention would be wonderful its basically
<11Finalstand> our only way to beat the raging servants when theres 3+ up per mage and the swing hate thats pretty much all I would ask for.
<11@Elidroth> For Rage of Rallos, I'd be willing to take it down by 2 min per rank, 3 ranks currently. So 24 min
<11WaeSheol> thats better than nothing
<11@Elidroth> Raging Servant is supposed to agro like crazy
<11@Elidroth> but regardless
<11@Elidroth> I'd need to talk with Aristo, but I'll see if I can get him to agree on a 3 rank, 1 min per rank reduction on Unbroken Attention
<11Beezy-again> Any chance paladins could get the bloodthirsty blade AA that sks have? I believe it's called bloodthirsty blade
<11Finalstand> that would be awesome thanks
<11@Elidroth> no
<11Beezy-again> Ok
<11@Elidroth> Paladins can't be EVERYTHING
<11Beezy-again> Loll
<11Beezy-again> Was worth a shot!
<11krozman> Does anyone else have issues with Paladin Force of Disruption not generating the full hate on initial aggro? I use it to pull more often than not and it'd be nice if I didnt have to use my crush line the entire time.
<11Tura> ur suppose to follow that with upgrades to SU lol
<11Beezy-again> I haven't noticed any issue with force kroz
<11shiftee> Demand for Honor is a paladin spell that pulses hate over time it currently has a spell cast time of 1.25 seconds, this type of spell is something we must constantly be casting this spell on multiple mobs since we cannot get ae hate is there any chance we could get this cast time cut in half via AA. It is really annoying to always be trying to channel spells through mob push (which btw is out of control these days).
<11Beezy-again> With new undead zone I would love a slay undead upgrades lol!!!!
<11shiftee> @ kroz all hate is capped initially, you are wasting FoD if you use it first afaik.
<11@Elidroth> :\
<11krozman> no not all hate
<11krozman> crush line doesnt
<11shiftee> well those have overrides
<11ranpha2> I've got a question regarding healing and tanks. Clerics gets quite a few spell lines that cause the target to cast a heal, like heal when hitting a mob, heal when getting hit, promised line. However, for Warriors none of these crit or get boosted by AA, making warriors that already require more healing need even more healing. Can we get heal parity?
<11@Elidroth> actually yes.. unless something has an override, it is hate capped
<11@Elidroth> no
<11@Elidroth> you can't ranpha2
<11krozman> I guess I would just like to see new ranks of Force of Disruption to have an override on initial hate
<11@Elidroth> there are issues in the code that prevent that from working the same
<11@Elidroth> it sucks I know
<11@Elidroth> I've tried to do those sorts of things a couple different ways
<11Beezy-again> So slay undead upgrade with new undead zone, right elidroth?!
<11krozman> I mean, if you take demand for honor and get the cast time down to .5 seconds where it belongs i could pull with that, but Force seems to be the intended aggro spell
<11ranpha2> Yes, I understand that the AA's from caster cannot be used due to code issues, I just bring it up because I think it is a big issue still.
<11WaeSheol> Warriors have Resplendant > <sp> which adds to the ammount they are healed for a short time, an extension to that would be nice if even one tick
<11@Elidroth> it's 1 min right now right?
<11Finalstand> Yes that would be helpful and hold the line hastened or extension
<11WaeSheol> I believe so
<11@Elidroth> ok
<11@Elidroth> I'll work on that
<11WaeSheol> its a ast resrt ability for me so every second counts lol
<11WaeSheol> last^
<11Finalstand> I use it with finalstand but stack hold the line as a mini defensive
<11@Elidroth> I think I want to leave Hold the Line alone for now
<11@Elidroth> I'm more inclined to increase Resplendent Glory's effectiveness slightly
<11krozman> Is there a chance for FoD to include hate override Elidroth?
<11shiftee> did you see my comment above about demand for honor spell line?
<11WaeSheol> was Staunch defence updated this expansion? if not ive been using that a lot lately im not sure if its intended to stacj with outfitter and aura though but seems to
<11Finalstand> Can we get more clicky extensions ( to make them last an hour lol the long ones are at 44 mins now almost there
<11Finalstand> yes it was
<11@Elidroth> I'm not going to bother trying to figure out what acronyms mean
<11Augok> yes.. stalwart defense was added warsheol
<11Augok> oops
<11Augok> steadfast
<11shiftee> krozman meant force of disruption
<11shiftee> it is the paladin aa stun, it has no hate override
<11shiftee> so it only does capped aggro if you use it first
<11@Elidroth> Stuns add hate differently
<11krozman> The only reason Force of Disruption is used is b/c of the aggro it generates
<11shiftee> it isn't technically a stun either, more of a chance to interrupt attached to hate
<11Finalstand> yes they are intended to stack the field defender is sort duration for now till you get the 20% dodge clicky its good to use with commanding voice also
<11Beezy-again> Well I'm at my next work site, thanks again elidroth wish I could stay for more. Take care all
<11shiftee> later beezylicious
<11@Elidroth> Again.. Paladins are not hurting for hate generation, so I'm not inclined to alter that
<11krozman> so while it's technically a stun, the aggro is the primary benefit, and the most used aggro ability we spam. So when I pull I can't use force b/c of the hate override issue. Thats why i'm asking if it's possible to get it on the override side
<11WaeSheol> even resisted stuns if I remember add some hate is that correct?
<11@Elidroth> yes
<11Finalstand> all you have to do is hit the npc or use a spel lthats not hate capped
<11shiftee> his override request is meant for tagging a mob and exceeding the hate cap
<11shiftee> which would really do nothing in standard play outside that scenario
<11krozman> ya
<11shiftee> but it isn't really a big deal
<11shiftee> just cast 2 spells instead of 1 to break the hate cap
<11shiftee> or w/e
<11krozman> Otherwise I pull with Demand for Honor and go afk while the spell casts
<11Finalstand> aye my hate hotkey casts the ccorn line because its not hate capped then it casts gut punch then bazu roar line it just takes making a simple macro hotkey
<11Finalstand> scorn *
<11shiftee> paladin abilities aren't instant cast
<11shiftee> so it is apples to oranges
<11shiftee> we can't make a hotkey for it
<11Finalstand> ahh
<11@Elidroth> No on clicky entensions
<11@Elidroth> if they're important to you then click them
<11Terminat> it's just annoying
<11Finalstand> I didn't think you would )
<11Terminat> not fun
<11@Elidroth> is it worth enough to deal with being annoyed?
<11Terminat> games don't have to be annoying
<11@Elidroth> if so, then click. If not, then don't
<11shiftee> if they could separate out things like SK epic duration
<11Finalstand> yeah sadly
<11shiftee> from a form of defense click
<11@Elidroth> clickies are just not really intended to be huge value
<11shiftee> i'm sure they'd be more inclined to look at clicky durations lol
<11@Elidroth> or at least they weren't.. I don't know anymore.. lol
<11Terminat> they are now
<11Finalstand> well i use like 10
<11shiftee> things like haste
<11shiftee> from lizard scale plated girdle is 24 min max extended
<11shiftee> and a potion is 30 minutes
<11Finalstand> 10 things every 44 mins minus 2 others that are less then 44 min
<11Terminat> why even put them on items if they don't have value
<11shiftee> recasting so often gets cumbersome
<11@Elidroth> BECAUSE THEY'RE FUN THINGS
<11@Elidroth> gah.. Capslock
<11shiftee> lol
<11Terminat> NO THEY'RE NOT
<11Finalstand> lol
<11@Elidroth> then don't use them
<11@Elidroth> sorry, you'll get no sympathy from me on this one
<11Terminat> i do want to use them, just not every 30min
<11@Elidroth> OMG.. every 30 minutes?
<11Finalstand> they are useful if it adds 1 ac ill click it every 5 secs (
<11@Elidroth> you click abilities every few seconds
<11Tura> the horror anyway lol
<11Terminat> you obviously don't raid or play this game lol
<11krozman> it would be better if we could assign a buff slot to a particular clicky so you know what you're missing and can organize buff slots, but ya
<11Synyster> a buff shouldnt have to be reclicked ever... it "should" be static till u die
<11Finalstand> that would be awesome
<11shiftee> Elidroth, - Demand for Honor is a paladin spell that pulses hate over time it currently has a spell cast time of 1.25 seconds, this type of spell is something we must constantly be casting this spell on multiple mobs since we cannot get ae hate is there any chance we could get this cast time cut in half via AA. It is really annoying to always be trying to channel spells through mob push (which btw is out of control these days).
<11Finalstand> i hide to clicky buff myself lol
<11@Elidroth> Shiftee.. I'll talk with Aristo about that one..
<11shiftee> thank you
<11shiftee> i have another one that you might need to consult him for
<11Finalstand> could you talk the item guy into making a damage weapon augment with force of anger too !
<11krozman> While you're talking with him, can you possibly convert the Rejuvinating Steel Spell to an AA so it's actually used?
<11shiftee> Extended Preservation - increase the duration of Ward of tunare line so that the recast doesn't have to be constantly refreshed even though you have not met the proc limit. This is a quality of life aa, channeling this in combat or needing to cast it ever other mob even though you have 17 counters left is irritating.
<11@Elidroth> Synyster - name one game that has buffs until you die
<11shiftee> originally the spell had no counters so the short duration made sense
<11Reht> Dark age of camelot
<11@Elidroth> unless that's a recent change, then no.. sorry..
<11shiftee> after you changed it and added 29 counters there is really no reason to not have it be a longer duration buff 8 minutes or so, so that it wears off via counters instead of duration
<11@Elidroth> I played that game A LOT
<11Synyster> it doesnt matter really... other than burn abilities there is no reason to have ~1 hr buffs ever
<11@Elidroth> agreed Shiftee.. the counters are the limitation
<11Synyster> also player auras that are permanent? that only last 10 min
<11@Elidroth> we disagree then Sysyster
<11shiftee> but it often fades with like 15 counters left
<11Synyster> tis fine elidroth we disagree on a lot actually
<11Rhymez> Elidroth. You said paladins are not hurting for hate generation. as a bard it seems that paladins have the hardest time in grabbing ae agro if we are trying to get through a bunch of mobs at once. In fact that is the only reason I prefer not to run missions with a paladin. I'm unbiased but have always wondered about this. Is there a offset to it? Is it intentional? Or /ignore if its a dumb
<11Rhymez> question heh.
<11shiftee> which means we are doubling up on the mana cost/expense just to keep the buff going and it really makes no sense
<11@Elidroth> Might just be better to talk to Aristo about making that spell have a much longer duration rather than AA that alter it
<11krozman> Agree with Shiftee, i often recast Preservation of the Iceclad before the counters are close to being gone.
<11Finalstand> oh I almost forgot can you add in more stuff to help warriors deal with high damage output on spell caster npcs ?
<11shiftee> I'd be happy to talk to aristo but I'm pretty sure he hates me and you seem to respond during these chats so I like asking for things that might actually get changed vs ignored lol
<11Finalstand> Stuff to help us on extremely long raid encounters in particular
<11@Elidroth> I'll ask him
<11shiftee> if he wants to change it via spells i'm all for it, but if not i'd really like the extended aa
<11@Elidroth> I wrote it down
<11shiftee> thank you
<11@Elidroth> Rhymez - intentional. If one class is good at everything, then the need for other classes is reduced
<11krozman> Is there a chance to get together with Aristo and talk about a way to add Rejuvinating Steel to AA instead of a spell gem slot? Otherwise the spell line just dies before it begins.
<11@Elidroth> Like what FS? Most raid encounters with casters that do really high spell damage tend to exclude the main tank from being targeted
<11Synyster> can all classes with aura get an aa to make them actually permanent? ill spend all 70 aa that i can bank to do this
<11@Elidroth> No
<11Finalstand> hmm
<11shiftee> Paladins have an aa tree for a Purification effect, it started off as self only with a long recast, then had the recast reduced, then we got a targeted version, the next logical step is a group version of this AA. is this something you see possible for the class? It currently has a 14 min refresh.
<11Synyster> then remove the word permanent from their buff~
<11Finalstand> well take sep 4 for instance
<11Finalstand> every 1% he aed us for 30 kish
<11@Elidroth> yep
<11@Elidroth> know why that is?
<11Terminat> too much dps
<11@Elidroth> it's intentional
<11Finalstand> it made us slowed down to almost an hour to survive even useing spell mitigation enchanters and wizards have there was no way around it and when we died once it was terrible to recover
<11Finalstand> I know but us having a little bit ofway to prevent some of the damage would at least let us kill it a little faster
<11shiftee> that is an ae effect though, and kind of a bad example b/c if you go to fast even if the war survived the whole raid would be dead anyways
<11Finalstand> aye i know that is a bad example
<11@Elidroth> there are a number of guilds who win by bringing so much dps to the table they basically ignore raid mechanics
<11shiftee> however I have seen some group mobs that spike large damage on the tank that knights can offset with healing
<11shiftee> warriors either need a short spell disc they can hit
<11shiftee> or a way to replenish hps to assist in those huge spikes of dmg
<11Finalstand> thats just one with a ton of spell damage that cause huge spikes to us we can prevent even useing shield reflect and mark of the mage hunter
<11Finalstand> cant "
<11shiftee> a more practical solution seems like they should just greatly increase mark of the mage hunter spell rune
<11Finalstand> that would be a simple way yes
<11@Elidroth> giving warriors a way to heal themselves is bad. I'm sure you can understand why.
<11Finalstand> yeap
<11shiftee> oh i gree
<11shiftee> agree*
<11Finalstand> I would be mad if you did
<11shiftee> i was just pointing out the disparity
<11shiftee> improving their spell runes makes the most sense
<11@Elidroth> there was a time years ago that I started a rumor in serverwide.paladin that warriors were getting a self-only LoH
<11krozman> Elidroth, is there a chance for paladins to get an AA someday that operates a lot like Reprieve but regenerates mana up to, say, 15 to 25%? When a paladins is rezzed his usefulness is really really low until he can click a rod or get some mana.
<11@Elidroth> the hysteria within the paladin community was amusing (I wasn't on the team at the time)
<11WaeSheol> Nerf our bind wound? heh
<11@Elidroth> Krozman - Aristo and I are looking into ways to do more of that in general, but currently the code within resurrection prevents a lot of that
<11@Elidroth> we're hoping to have code time available soon to work on it but no ETA sadly
<11krozman> hrm ok,
<11Terminat> Give'em Thought Leech type aa and balance our agro

<11shiftee> speaking of REZZZZZZ can paladin 96% rez be adjusted to let you cast it with the 30 - 5 min cooldown
<11Finalstand> Well I don't want a heal Just some way of lowering the spike damage on nasty spell casters even for 1 minute would be awesome mark of the mage hunter just doesnt do that
<11krozman> perhaps an AA that is more of a staunch recovery, but only recovers 20% to HME?
<11shiftee> instead of completely ooc, one of the reasons it was asked for was to rez clerics after a raid wipe so they dont' have to take 90% rezzes and that didn't do anything to solve that problem
<11@Elidroth> I'm ok with a new Mark of the Mage Hunter, but I'll have to be very careful with the numbers
<11Finalstand> ok its better if you make it a smaller amount but make it last longer
<11@Elidroth> the amount is terrible
<11Finalstand> yeah but i just mean longer then like the enchanter spell works they have to pretty much chain cast it on me
<11@Elidroth> the per hit reduction is awful.. I'm ok with the cap though or at least a small upgrade to the cap
<11shiftee> things liek the pet iceflame proc
<11shiftee> might be something to look into
<11Rhymez> the low recast taunt that was mentioned earlier. was that warrior only or tank classes in general?
<11shiftee> or aegis of kildruken *sp)
<11Finalstand> yeap when I am playing my three toons by myself my mage will end up being the only one alive on some named and end up basically soloing the named with her pet while my mercs heal it
<11Finalstand> with me spending everything i have before they let me die happens a lot
<11@Elidroth> warrior
<11Finalstand> but I am more concerned with raid stuff anyhow thats just something I noticvced when facing spell casters
<11@Elidroth> so basically, I'm going to add a 95% chance to proc when using the Taunt skill to generate additional hate
<11krozman> Elidroth, is there a possibility of a lower powered self only Quiet Miracle then to solve the OOM rez effect thing i was talking about earlier?
<11@Elidroth> Kroz, I already addressed that. I said I needed to talk to Aristo about it 1st
<11shiftee> we talked to him about something like that kroz before you logged on
<11WaeSheol> Just wondering whats the current taunt % around 18/20?
<11shiftee> elidroth
<11shiftee> Paladins have an aa tree for a Purification effect, it started off as self only with a long recast, then had the recast reduced, then we got a targeted version, the next logical step is a group version of this AA. is this something you see possible for the class? It currently has a 14 min refresh.
<11@Elidroth> No idea Wars.. it's a skill buried in code somewhere
<11@Elidroth> lol
<11@Elidroth> No Shiftee.. Aristo specifically doesn't want Paladins to get an AA Purify
<11Rhymez> i think taunt should have an added effect of grow for 300% and make them immune to shrink. im getting old and tanks seem to always want to hide in the mobs
<11shiftee> ok
<11Finalstand> lol
<11Augok> Elidroth.. would that stack ok with barbed tongue? also would you be able to proc when taunt not successful?
<11@Elidroth> its a skill proc that would only trigger on success I think but I might be able to play with that
<11shiftee> Blessing of Light - as this AA only mods imbue buffs and our imbue buff is rather limited in functional DPS increase the modification this AA gives for improved passive DPS. With the fixed PPM of imbue spells and no real way to modify their proc rate this would result in a set passive dps upgrade that does not need to be closely monitored towards the DPS increase it might add with other exponential factors.
<11@Elidroth> lol
<11shiftee> hmmmm...
<11shiftee> proc dps is very controlled gains actually I'd like to see the undead bane added to this that is on our spells so that if the mob is undead we gain an extra boom
<11shiftee> slay undead stagnation mixed with increased mob hp it has fallen behind your stated goal for paladin melee vs undead compared to real dps classes
<11Finalstand> This is probably a long shot but sinister strikes improves the damage done when using 2 1 handers , it currently has 1 rank would you consider giving us more ranks of this to make duel wield more viable ?
<11@Elidroth> Slay could use an upgrade
<11@Elidroth> I'm ok with that
<11shiftee> oh my
<11shiftee> !!!!!!!!
<11Candara-Cazic> o O
<11Beezy> Oh nice
<11@Elidroth> don't get crazy.. it won't be a HUGE upgrade
<11Beezy> Don't tell my uncle I joined this again
<11Tura> wow so true but wow lol
<11shiftee> that is a sentence i never thought i'd see
<11krozman> screenshot!
<11shiftee> ok
<11Tharkis> shiftee-joygasm
<11Candara-Cazic> anything is nice though Elidroth. Paladins of Norrath rejoice lol
<11Finalstand> You could also use this aa with the low ranks to add in a parry buff or something similar to make it more viable even in tanking.
<11shiftee> so do you think damage or frequency? is the appropriate route, I'd say dmg frequency causes problems
<11@Elidroth> I don't have control over frequency
<11Beezy> How many more ranks are you thinking elidroth?
<11@Elidroth> well.. I do SORT OF
<11@Elidroth> 1
<11shiftee> current group weapon slay is about 46k dmg with mobs having 1.5 mil that is about 3% of total hp
<11shiftee> which is hardly anything to notice
<11shiftee> wiz twincast is doing 500k dmg
<11shiftee> not looking for anything like that but the number adjust upwards is most welcome
<11ranpha2> sorry, what wiz twincast is doing 500k dmg?
<11shiftee> their new ethreals
<11shiftee> with full burn going
<11Beezy> It's true
<11Reht> On raid flagged yes
<11Beezy> I've seen it on parses
<11@Elidroth> Shiftee.. this is a problem people have
<11@Elidroth> they will reference THEIR abilities in a group situation and then present something raid only for comparison
<11shiftee> ok my bad
<11shiftee> the non raid version
<11shiftee> is doing 400k
<11shiftee> i'll try not to do that again in the future I didn't do it on purpose
<11Synyster> wizards are dps pally's are tanks?
<11shiftee> raid weapons have about 100 base damage over the group weapons and raid paladins do about 70-80k slays
<11@Elidroth> I really am not concerned with how Paladin dps compares with Wizard
<11krozman> Elidroth, last couple expansions seems every casters available got a group Invis to undead, any chance of paladins getting an AA invis?
<11@Elidroth> no
<11shiftee> it wasn't a dps comparison i was doing just talking about the relative values of max hit, there is a huge difference between saying look at this max hit, vs something someone can achieve via a proc of 5% of swings
<11shiftee> kinda like wizard mana burn vs crane stance
<11Voodoman> LIFEBURN
<11shiftee> thank you for looking into an increase there elidroth
<11Beezy> Synyster I will eat your babies hush
<11Tura> Eli - were Lay on Hands and Hand of Piety hot values going to be looked at to balance with the new boosts Aristo gave to hot spells ?
<11Finalstand> so the sinister strike question elidroth ?
<11@Elidroth> I'm kind of running out of room on LoH improvements.. I need to get code to give me more design space
<11@Elidroth> I didn't see a Sinister Strike question
<11shiftee> speaking of hand of piety
<11shiftee> a few betas ago we asked for something
<11shiftee> and i thought the entire pal community was on board
<11Finalstand> can we repeat stuff here ?
<11Synyster> This is probably a long shot but sinister strikes improves the damage done when using 2 1 handers , it currently has 1 rank would you consider giving us more ranks of this to make duel wield more viable ? 14:47ElidrothSlay could use an upgrade was what he said
<11shiftee> but they have buyers regret
<11Synyster> plus a little of what u said
<11@Elidroth> Let me look at it Synyster
<11shiftee> the higher ranks of hand of piety add a heal over time, which in turn stops the initial heal from doing crit dmg
<11shiftee> crit haling rather*
<11shiftee> healing* fml
<11@Elidroth> oh yeah.. that one
<11@Elidroth> sadly the way that ability was coded was dumb
<11shiftee> can we maybe get 2 separate lines?
<11@Elidroth> I have no control over it. The effect is simply an on/off switch
<11krozman> Elidroth, is there an AA solution to have all defensive discs, when activated, to cancel existing discs running? I can't tell you how many times i'm DPS'ing using pureforge disc when I need to take over instantly on a raid mob but i have to click pureforge off before I can hit deflect.
<11shiftee> can we get it split of into 2 separate abilities
<11shiftee> 1 that crits
<11@Elidroth> No Kroz. It's what it is currently
<11shiftee> and 1 that has the heal over time
<11Candara-Cazic> Hand of Marr, req lv 21 of Hand of Piety, same timer, 1 heal w/ crit and no HoT component. etc. what Shiftee is saying
<11Dre> Hi Elidroth, I'd like to know your opinion on viability of Dual Wield and 2H weapons for Warriors. A lot of Warriors would really enjoy Dual Wielding again, in particular but everything is trumped by 1H+Shield right now.
<11Finalstand> Well what I asked would you consider giving us more sinister strike ranks that improve dual wielding dps and add in a parry type of buff that increases the viability of duel wield it only has 1 rank
<11shiftee> to please both crowds, kind of a convoluted work around but it is what it is
<11Finalstand> well pretty much dw is only good when we have to have swing hate
<11shiftee> or
<11@Elidroth> I've said many times that I want dual wield to be viable again, but not for tanking
<11shiftee> could you drastically increase the base value of the higher ranks
<11Finalstand> its lower dps and it takes away a huge chunk to our mitigation
<11@Elidroth> as it should
<11Finalstand> I know
<11@Elidroth> though I don't think it should be lower dps
<11shiftee> of hand of piety, since it isn't going to crit there is no harm in increasing the base value of the higher ranks to adjust for inflated hp pools
<11Voodoman> dual wield two handers, for battleblade
<11WaeSheol> if a warrior DWs then they do it at their own risk missing all that mitigation
<11@Elidroth> agreed Shiftee
<11@Elidroth> it can be higher per tick
<11Finalstand> but it also can get us one rounded just swinging to it to build more hate a parry type effect making it somewhat able to let us survive a few rounds would help
<11Dre> If not for tanking and not for DPS (should that not be 2H?) what role would you give it?
<11shiftee> not the heal over time elidroth
<11@Elidroth> DW should be for dps
<11shiftee> the direct heal
<11@Elidroth> 2H should probably be the same, but give you different benefits
<11@Elidroth> right now I don't have a real clear method to get there unfortunately
<11Finalstand> well it gives us way more hate then sword and board thats where the issue lies we only use it for hate
<11@Elidroth> I know what I WANT to do, but just don't have any real way to get there
<11WaeSheol> if your in a group and have 2 tanks im sure one can DW np
<11Finalstand> no the one using dw would be the one tanking
<11Dre> Could you share then what you'd like to do? I personally would like to see DW, 2H and 1h+shield all be viable against group content at least (mabye have to shield up for named)
<11WaeSheol> agro meter they can manage
<11@Elidroth> Please don't PM me.. I won't answer
<11Finalstand> because of the swing hate that just swinging causes and the procs you would have to basically use 2 weapons with the deaggro proc on it to not tank
<11shiftee> lol
<11@Elidroth> I don't have time to deal with multiple conversations
<11krozman> Ok, i'll be the one who asks. Can we please get a mount AA that is a tad bit more.....masculine?
<11@Elidroth> no
<11Voodoman> he wants a pony
<11shiftee> hahahaha
<11shiftee> pegasus is masculine look at that old claymation greek movie
<11Beezy-again> I want my unicorn with a pink bow on the horn!
<11krozman> My 3 year old daughter things i look pretty. That can't be the solution to my avatar!
<11@Elidroth> what I see really for warriors is 1h/shield is for tanking, DW and 2H are dps
<11Voodoman> my little paladin pony
<11Beezy-again> Kidding of course
<11@Elidroth> DW hits faster for smaller amounts and less crits, while 2H hits slower, but harder, with a chance for BIG critical hits
<11@Elidroth> but is also less accurate
<11shiftee> in that case why don't you add the shield specialist mod to dw and reduce its effectiveness for the s/b combo
<11@Elidroth> but again.. I don't have a simple way to get there.. so right now.. we're kind of stuck
<11@Elidroth> because I can't
<11Finalstand> so then for dw we should invest in swords that have less hate ?
<11shiftee> they do have the calming strike proc weapons :/
<11@Elidroth> again.. this is what I WANT to happen, but isn't something I can accomplish currently
<11Finalstand> well you could help with sinister strikes by giving it more ranks and adding in a deaggro proc to that , that would help you move in that direction
<11shiftee> could you potentially give warriors an inquisitors judgement type ability they could imbue that procs a jolt to offset their aggro when not tanking?
<11WaeSheol> if your DW your not holding a shield that should answer itself
<11Flakfizer> not sure if mentioned yet, but any possibility of making our pally fade (balefire burst) insta-cast....or have AA to reduce reuse timer on it?
<11@Elidroth> not going to be instant
<11shiftee> he said he'd consider taking it to .25 sec cast
<11Flakfizer> pain to have to leap just to get room to cast it
<11shiftee> nothing futher was said
<11shiftee> further*
<11Flakfizer> faster would help. what about reuse time reduction?
<11shiftee> and i'd have to disagree reduced reuse time isn't really warranted
<11shiftee> i think it is balanced right now imo
<11Dre> In terms of working within the constraints of the system to increase DPS outside of S+B, would it be possible to increase swing rates in weapon stances, e.g. more TA/Flurry, offhand TA/flurry, or perhaps HH proc?
<11WaeSheol> if it was 25 even warriors could pull hmm
<11@Elidroth> no Dre.. flurry and triple attack are actually higher than we want right now
<11Dre> What about proc effects, like HH or some kind of skill damage proc?
<11@Elidroth> no HH
<11WaeSheol> Has there been any talk on if/when/where AA lines like Combat stability and agaility will end? it seems they cant go much further
<11@Elidroth> Warriors I've talked to don't want more procs because it potentially conflicts with hate procs
<11Finalstand> ans the reason you see people wanting duel wield back is because that made us a unique tanking class kinda made knights jealous we could tank with 2 swords that is why people want it back we want some uniqueness
<11shiftee> elidroth re: warriors a 2her proc shouldn't be worried about hate procs
<11shiftee> it is meant for dps
<11Dre> Yes, every tank except for BB wants to Dual Wield again.
<11Flakfizer> FS not jealous at all....liked not having to bid against you on shields
<11Dre> Warrior*
<11shiftee> and if you tied it to only proc when 2h equipped it wouldn't conflict
<11Finalstand> aye with 2 swords if you want to go in the direction of dps and 2 hander procs wont hurt us because hate wouldnt be what we want
<11@Elidroth> Wars - there is definitely a softcap but I don't really know where the limit is.. I need to spend some time reading the code to figure that out
<11shiftee> Righteous vexation - the paladin imbue procs a single skill attack, you could make an innate warrior proc with a 2her equipped that procs a crimson blade type ability (sk skill)
<11Finalstand> Thats what made eq so awesome was all the uniqueness in it now were all slowly merging together people even jokingly say hey one day were all gonna be one class
<11@Elidroth> you're not going to be tanking via DW anymore
<11Dre> I like Shiftee's idea for a crimson blade style proc.
<11@Elidroth> I don't think
<11shiftee> elidroth re: blessing of light* paladins proc our imbued spell Fury line that we have had since level 49 at like 4 ppm and with the blessing of light additional damage it does about 5k dmg on a crit, any chance of looking into adding more to the blessing of light modifier ?
<11Dre> for 2H
<11@Elidroth> we'll see on Crimson Blade.
<11@Elidroth> one sec.. need to use the restroom

<11Finalstand> I understand the need for a shield so I am not saying hey make us tank with 2 swords make us survive a little closer to sword is board is all I would ask for .
<11Dre> I'm not sure where DW falls in though. If we cant tank with it or speed up swing rates or have HH procs it would need something like a pure damage mod.
<11shiftee> the crimson blade thing needs to be a proc
<11shiftee> not activated
<11shiftee> or they will bandolier S/B and let shield specialist add the 65% mod to the skill attack
<11Finalstand> well he said its faster and more accurate while 2 hander would be less accurate and bigger crits
<11shiftee> and would need to be tied to the 2her restriction
<11Dre> Accuracy is really high, I dont think we have much to gain there
<11Finalstand> hes still working through it and doesn't see a clear path yet but thats what he would like
<11shiftee> Elidroth I kind of have a request for all 3 tanks when you get back
<11Beezy1> Shiftee has anybody discussed blessing of the faithful procs yet?
<11Beezy1> While I was gone
<11shiftee> no
<11shiftee> it is on the list
<11shiftee> send me a pm
<11shiftee> with what you want
<11Beezy1> Ok
<11Beezy1> Can't won't work on iPad right lol
<11Beezy1> Mainly just increased proc rate when we slay is all I'm really looking for
<11Beezy1> As in kill the mob, not slay undead
<11shiftee> killshot doesn't really need increased proc rate
<11shiftee> but a longer duration would be great
<11Beezy1> Iirc the damage mod on blessing is good enough, but I don't remember offhand what it is.
<11@Elidroth> back
<11Beezy1> Well
<11shiftee> so that when 1 mob dies it is still running while the next one gets pulled
<11shiftee> welcome back
<11Beezy1> Id take either or honestly
<11shiftee> 3 tank question
<11@Elidroth> ok
<11shiftee> currently mob push is so high b/c eq physics make you get pushed more the more damage is done as well as how fast mobs hit afaik, mobs are hitting for insane amounts these days. You can see the push stop completely when you hit shield block. We are combating this by using our mount so that the mob can't push us backwards, due to the slow movement it basically roots us. Is there anyway for all 3 tanks to get an aa that puts the buff limitations of a mount to root them in place but without the mount.
<11Terminat> just remove push imo
<11shiftee> that was voted against or something though
<11shiftee> i dont' care if the mob moves
<11@Elidroth> that has nothing to do with it Shiftee.. mount behavior is in the push code
<11@Elidroth> npcs pushing pcs is intentional and won't be removed
<11shiftee> well mob push is interrupting spells on a ridiculous level
<11Dre> AA to spawn portable corner to tank?
<11Terminat> give us more channeling then
<11shiftee> channeling won't fix it
<11Finalstand> it is pretty crazy
<11@Elidroth> it's supposed to Shiftee
<11Terminat>
<11shiftee> it is worse now then ever before though
<11shiftee> it was tolerable before
<11shiftee> trying to cast a group heal while being hit is getting impossible
<11Synyster> just remove the part about mounts that restricts haste and let all melee type abilities to be used while mounted
<11shiftee> i feel like i'm on ice skates
<11@Elidroth> I'll talk to Jenn about changing the physics to be less dependent upon damage inflicted
<11Finalstand> When you call a burn on a raid and the npc starts moving 100 feet per second its a bit crazy
<11shiftee> player push is something else entirely
<11shiftee> i just want to be able to cast spells while tanking
<11@Elidroth> Synyster - Anytime you start a statement with "Just..." in relation to EQ, just understand things on this game are NEVER easy
<11Terminat> give some class an ability to lock it in place or something
<11Terminat> not root
<11Finalstand> an aa corner tould be awesome =P
<11Finalstand> would *
<11Terminat> lol
<11Synyster> oh i dont expect it to be easy but it would solve some issues classwide with 1 fix instead of 15
<11shiftee> otherwise people are going to expect all spells to be .5 cast time orless to compensate
<11shiftee> and that is kind of boring
<11shiftee> but it makes slower heals, or combat buffs kinda meh
<11shiftee> anyhow
<11shiftee> thank you for looking into it
<11WarSheols> I hope there is a log of this later irc keeps tossing me
<11shiftee> that hobby horse
<11shiftee> that you released that was a horse that couldn't move
<11shiftee> would be an acceptable buff
<11Finalstand> lol
<11@Elidroth> no
<11shiftee> lol
<11Dre> Another 3 tank request - Would you consider a DD only resist chance for spell damage for tanks? Currently tanks are the least survivable during AE's due to fluxuating hitpoints from melee damage.
<11Finalstand> yeah something to root us would be nice but then we would also need something that helps us move the npc back into a position
<11Rhymez> a backwards leap ability?
<11shiftee> i realize not everything is meant ot be corner tanked
<11@Elidroth> rooting you doesn't stop push.. it just means YOU can't move.. it doesn't change your ability to be moved
<11shiftee> these are mostly enhanced game play requests
<11Finalstand> oh
<11shiftee> ^^^
<11shiftee> which is why i said the hobby horse thing
<11shiftee> actually
<11shiftee> a really high snare
<11shiftee> would work
<11Terminat> ^^
<11shiftee> when the mobs debuff us with that necro snare
<11shiftee> you can't move backwards
<11@Elidroth> ugh
<11Finalstand> aye you have to strafe
<11shiftee> which is better than a root mechanic lol
<11@Elidroth> movement rates, roots, snares affect YOUR ABILITY TO MOVE YOURSELF
<11shiftee> ok dropping it and moving on sorry
<11WarSheols> if mob is pushed a warrior not sure on other classes can use grapling strike to drag it into place and forcefull attraction
<11Terminat> push is just out of control on both ends of the spectrum imo, anything to help mitigate it would be good for all classes and this game
<11Finalstand> they dont really refresh enough to be useful
<11Finalstand> i can grappling strike most of the time and the npc doesnt even move
<11WarSheols> on raids we have 10 to 15 warriors
<11shiftee> paladin ---
<11shiftee> Demoralize: 1 minute duration 10 minute recast -500 MR, reduces a targets ability to dodge.
<11shiftee> Spells with a similar effect = Tunnel Vision (Diviner of Dread, Ritual of Terror Raid)
<11shiftee> Spell ID = 12154, gemicon = 0, spell name = Tunnel Vision
<11shiftee> Rank 1,2,3 cost 5/10/15, Decrease chance to dodge 5/10/15% 3 tic duration, 10 minute recast
<11Finalstand> we have 4
<11WarSheols> thats plenty
<11@Elidroth> Why?
<11shiftee> is that something you could see adding to paladins eli?
<11shiftee> b/c improved tanking through discs and aa to self are reaching a cap
<11shiftee> we have like 18 million vies
<11shiftee> that all make each other do nothing
<11@Elidroth> Aristo and I are looking at making your current tanking abilities more relevant
<11@Elidroth> no details or ETA on that though
<11shiftee> this gives us an ability to do something outside the tank archetype a bit
<11shiftee> synergy brings desireability
<11Dre> Eli did you miss my question about DD resist for all 3 tanks?
<11@Elidroth> no Dre.. it's been asked at least 6 times already today
<11Dre> Apologies, I was late.
<11@Elidroth> I'm going to deal with that via Mark of the Mage Hunter
<11shiftee> re; demoralize - to be truthful that might be a good sk idea tbh
<11@Elidroth> yep
<11Dre> Can we get the duration of Mage hunter extended? It doesn't last through group named in my experience.
<11@Elidroth> moreso than Paladin actually
<11@Elidroth> that's not what it's for Dre
<11shiftee> elidroth i have 1 last question about push
<11shiftee> the old tree illusion is that a root or does it actually make you an object?
<11@Elidroth> it's intended to take the big nuke not be a defensive/rune through an entire fight
<11@Elidroth> nothing makes you an object
<11@Elidroth> Look.. it's simple. You're not getting anything that abstracts away push
<11shiftee> ok
<11Voodoman> unless you're female *zing.gif
<11@Elidroth> push needs to be fixed at the code level
<11illa> tree illusion is a root
<11Terminat> how does Deflection negate push then?
<11Dre> All I know is I've been getting rocked around with spell damage in groups since HoT. I basically hunt mobs for upgrades based on the size of their DD/AE because it's random death to me.
<11@Elidroth> seriously?
<11Beezy1> Just drop push, he already talked about it
<11Beezy1> The end
<11Finalstand> I like the scream/ shout /roar type of feel with the warriors wish we could get some more to do utility things like short duration snare / fear that actually works on adds and stuff , would you considering giving us stuff that does small buffs to the group not like a bard but similar to what bards do
<11shiftee> elidroth re: paladin 96% rez, any chance at an upgrade? not being able to help on a recover or pop a rez before being able to use the aa seems kind of silly
<11shiftee> not asking to be able to cast it in combat
<11shiftee> but with the hourglass makes sense instead of complete ooc
<11Finalstand> like shout of courage = makes the group do more damage by 2 or something nothing big
<11shiftee> and that also does not take into account that my wizard friend is rezzing me with tokens for 96% and I cannot rez anyone for 30 seconds to 5 minutes depending
<11@Elidroth> FS - I like the idea of Warriors using shouts for additional benefits, but it's going to be very hard to find much that doesn't have stacking issues with other things
<11@Elidroth> shiftee - I'm not changing your current 96%
<11Finalstand> well the reason i ask is because like on raids we dont get bards or shaman stuf that is small but similar to what they do and other classes that get put in dps groups would be nice and would also just be cool
<11shiftee> *shudder*
<11@Elidroth> I understand FS
<11@Elidroth> in fact that might be a good set of additions to give help in the group game
<11@Elidroth> so long as warriors understand there is a high probability those abilities won't do anything for the raiders
<11Finalstand> Yeap I do understand that
<11shiftee> self generated dps
<11@Elidroth> I'll look into that
<11shiftee> that doesnt' stack with the big boy mods
<11Dre> I think we need more help in group game than raid game honestly, but I haven't raided in years.
<11shiftee> is always welcomed
<11shiftee> like smaller degrees of shaman epic
<11shiftee> or bard quicktime
<11illa> wars DO need help in groups
<11@Elidroth> I agree
<11shiftee> the only problem is the bloating of combined/sustained parses
<11shiftee> but that isn't much of an issue
<11Finalstand> Well my view in the group game is really blurred I am awesome in a group people love grouping with me I sustain good dps and if I dont have the classes to make the group awesome i either put my mage outside of group or I put my bard in the group and 3 box
<11@Elidroth> so strange going back to the iphone
<11Beezy1> Been on iPad all day haha
<11@Elidroth> here's a hint.. I don't give 2 thoughts about parses.. people are WAY too infatuated with seeing their name at the top of a parse
<11shiftee> well yeah
<11Finalstand> I even hung out with a monk to get to 100 the day of realease who used to play an sk and seen him say in general chat he would now prefer a warrior so see my view is blurred
<11Voodoman> people like to twist their parses too
<11shiftee> but the #'s don't lie
<11Voodoman> heavily
<11Voodoman>
<11@Elidroth> who cares?
<11shiftee> people have grown accustomed to equating numerical values with class balance
<11@Elidroth> Did mob x die? Did you have fun doing it? Then why does your position in the parse really matter?
<11Voodoman> ^
<11WarSheols> I do not trust or believe in parses heh to many variables
<11@Elidroth> if everyone was doing the exact same job then parse numbers would matter
<11Terminat> well, that's like, your oppinionman
<11Dre> I agree, I'm a tank, that's what I care about.
<11Dre> taking hits
<11Beezy1> Next question shiftee
<11@Elidroth> I'm just saying people have become much too focused on parse numbers
<11shiftee> they have
<11Finalstand> your right
<11Dre> considering most classes are DPS it's not surprising though
<11WarSheols> I hit the bad guy and press my taunt buttons
<11@Elidroth> if I could hide numbers completely, it wouldn't be a horrible thing in the game
<11@Elidroth> might get people playing the game instead of worrying they lose 2 dps vs the previous fight
<11Finalstand> wel lthey do help us find out the peole that join groups and afk every 30 secs
<11shiftee> however you can't say that a warrior suddenly doing 50k sustained dps wouldn't upset the balance with dps classes even if it is fixating on dps numbers
<11Dre> Back to tanking - for Wars I'd like to bring up downward scaling tanking abilities. Something that does raw -dmg instead of % runes, mitigation of low DI hits or 100% shielding. Something that basically makes us shrug off weak hits. I think that would help us out a lot in group content and soloing (ogod we suck at soloing)
<11WarSheols> On raids people stay on named cause they want to see their name high on parse when they should be fighting adds for example
<11shiftee> that was all that i meant about stacking
<11@Elidroth> this is off on a tangent, but I actually had a complain that this clicky he had wasn't stacking and that it cost him 4dps in a parse
<11@Elidroth> FOUR
<11shiftee> lol
<11@Elidroth> anyway.. back to the topic
<11shiftee> kind of related
<11shiftee> but also off topic
<11shiftee> you guys should look into lmaking some bard songs for raids AE
<11shiftee> to even out the support across a raid
<11Beezy1> Stop getting sidetracked
<11shiftee> sorry!!!!
<11@Elidroth> why? so guilds only have to bring 1 bard to a raid?
<11krozman> Hey that 4 dps times the 100,000 mobs I've killed over the last 2 years adds up to a lot of damage, i want that back all at once!
<11shiftee> no
<11Voodoman> my melee damage only does 100 pls buff
<11Rhymez> bards are lined up for their turn. i would waste today on bards =)
<11Rhymez> wouldnt*
<11shiftee> so mid tier guilds not having 6 bards can still do competitive dps
<11shiftee> to balance events
<11@Elidroth> off topic
<11shiftee> but again off topic
<11Dre> unless you mean making Warriors into lesser bards, XD
<11Voodoman> on topic: when can warriors dual wield paladin spell books, healing with the left and stunning with the right?

<11WarSheols> This isnt bard day is it?
<11Voodoman> ok back to my hole
<11shiftee> paladin***
<11shiftee> Aura of the Crusader - AA version of the aura increase by 5 to 10% healing, really sick of mem the damn aura all the time.
<11shiftee> a copy of the aura to allow us to not mem it constantly would be appreciated
<11WarSheols> No new melee tank aura's ive heard
<11shiftee> it isn't new per se
<11shiftee> just a copy of the spell
<11Beezy1> Not new
<11Finalstand> yeah aristo shot down auras for anyone but casters
<11shiftee> we already have it
<11Beezy1> Just in aa form
<11@Elidroth> Aura = pain
<11shiftee> ^
<11shiftee> but, without the wear off message or timer on it
<11shiftee> no idea whenit is ever going to drop
<11Finalstand> auras are bad for that I get stuck without mine all the time cause I cant cast it without fort going cause flash of anger locks me from casting it lol
<11WarSheols> they cant currentky find a way to get a fade message for them ie been told is more complicated than it sounds
<11Finalstand> I edit the ui I wouldnt want to dig through all the rest of the code
<11shiftee> all of that is kind of meh I'm just asking via the pal community for an aa version of something we already have
<11shiftee> so that we don't have to keep memorizing the spell, i'm sure you can relate since you don't ever have to do that
<11WarSheols> My keyboard may need replaced or I need to learn to spell
<11Finalstand> I do it has a permenant spot on my combat abilities where i could put tons of other stuff
<11shiftee> you could / disc
<11shiftee> and put it anywhere
<11Synyster> combat abilities can go on hotbars
<11Fatbuk> you can also move the tons of other stuff to 1 of the 10 available hotbars
<11Finalstand> i have 5 already (
<11shiftee> or use not hotbar at all
<11@Elidroth> If Aristo agrees to it I'm not against Crusader being turned into a buff, but I want make it an AA aura
<11shiftee> and type / disc anytime you want
<11shiftee> oh that would be awesome
<11Terminat> want or won't?
<11shiftee> i am sure paladins would be fine with duration buff that increases heals by 5% to the group
<11Finalstand> can you talk him into making flash of anger not lock ours out too ! so we can cast it when were tanking
<11Dre> Or making concentration work on combat abilities/AA and not just item clicks
<11@Elidroth> Terminat - Won't
<11@Elidroth> Flash of Anger locks what?
<11Dre> Aura
<11Finalstand> champions aura
<11@Elidroth> I can ask.. no promises
<11Dre> and field outfitter/commanding voice
<11WarSheols> locks 3 other things?
<11Finalstand> yeah it locks us out from all 3
<11Dre> yeah FoA needs a new timer
<11Dre> or!!
<11Dre> AA Flash of anger !
<11Dre> <3
<11Finalstand> lol
<11Finalstand> that would work
<11WarSheols> Flash also no fade emote?
<11WarSheols> I sure wouldnt mind an extra tick of flash at any cost
<11Dre> Eli, your thoughts on Warrior soloability and downward scaling improvements? Open to ideas?
<11Dre> downward scaling tanking*
<11shiftee> paladin -- any chance at a undead AA slow or cripple effect? the guy that posted the idea listed a few constipated debuff ideas but those seem the most straightforward of the ones he listed
<11Terminat> that sounds like a good one for knights in general
<11Finalstand> Thats all I have though thanks Elidroth for making us better you guys have listened I have seen a few things changed per requests. I will head out and let others speak now have a good night.
<11@Elidroth> Undead slow might work
<11@Elidroth> but how much, I don't know
<11@Elidroth> Warrior soloability is tough
<11shiftee> well with mitigation of slow
<11Beezy1> What's the Nercro undead slow at?
<11shiftee> it has to be high enough to be better than things like willsapper
<11shiftee> i'd have to look it up i forget offhand
<11@Elidroth> no it doesn't
<11@Elidroth> there aren't many people out there with a Willsapper these days
<11WarSheols> Warrior in current game should be your last choice if you wish to solo
<11@Elidroth> I agree
<11shiftee> yes but 35% mitigated is kinda :/
<11shiftee> i wouldnt' complain
<11shiftee> but was just hoping for something a bit more oomph
<11Beezy1> Shiftee look up the Nercro % for me?
<11@Elidroth> there's a shock
<11@Elidroth> more is always better cause well.. it's more
<11Dre> I think soloability could really be helped with downward scaling tanking abilities. Like shielding and mitigating low DI hits. Or maybe a parry proc on killshots, something.
<11WarSheols> ubless its being rezzed more hehe
<11shiftee> it is 31-75%
<11shiftee> 50% seems fair since it will be mitigated down quite a bit
<11Dre> I'd also like to see the bracing defense line start mitigating raw damage (like -1500 per hit) but that's more of an Aristo conversation I think
<11WarSheols> We have simular Killing Spree
<11shiftee> if you don't want to go that high on slow a better choice might be a smaller % attack debuff on undead mobs
<11@Elidroth> Solo ability for warriors is maybe the lowest priority thing I can think of
<11@Elidroth> it's just not what warriors do
<11boukk> or maybe a lower slow value, but one that can't be mitigated
<11WarSheols> Warrior are group dependant
<11Beezy1> So put paladin at a flat 65-70 maybe?
<11Dre> I'm thinking a lot of it would spill over into the group game also. So I can survive 10 seconds when my healer gets stunned or lags
<11shiftee> we don't need the most amazing slow ever
<11Fatbuk> on the knight undead slow thing, could it be more like a reduced helix?
<11Beezy1> I'd be ok with that fatbuk
<11shiftee> sharing it with sks is fine too
<11@Elidroth> helix?
<11shiftee> would be a neat aa for them
<11shiftee> sec i'll get the spell info
<11Fatbuk> enchanter spell
<11Fatbuk> curtailing helix, I think
<11shiftee> SlotDescription
<11shiftee> 1:Increase Disease Counter by 24
<11shiftee> 2ecrease Attack Speed by 70%
<11shiftee> 3ecrease STR by 186
<11shiftee> 4ecrease AC by 77
<11shiftee> 5ecrease DEX by 186
<11shiftee> 6ecrease AGI by 186
<11shiftee> 7ecrease Dual Wield by 10%
<11shiftee> but that is a bit much for a paladin aa slow
<11Dre> Or they could make undead stunnable again
<11shiftee> stun needs deleted
<11shiftee> from all gameplay
<11@Elidroth> I would probably restrict that to non-raid difficulty mobs
<11@Elidroth> too
<11shiftee> that works for me
<11Beezy1> That's fine with me a
<11shiftee> don't need to slow raid mobs
<11Beezy1> Also
<11shiftee> that's what chanters and shaman are fore
<11Beezy1> Right
<11Terminat> /clap
<11shiftee> for*
<11@Elidroth> brb.. need to run out to my car for a sec
<11WarSheols> I disagree stun is a nice agro grabber for me
<11Synyster> stun is push thus is bad
<11WarSheols> I can control my push with grapling strike
<11shiftee> no
<11ranpha3> stun and push are seperate, but a lot of stun spells contain push
<11shiftee> stun is terrible for game balance
<11shiftee> if it works
<11shiftee> it is the most amazing thing ever
<11shiftee> if it doesn't you are held hostage to when it does work
<11WarSheols> I have forcefull attraction to fall back on
<11shiftee> paladin stuns reduce incoming dps by like 65%
<11shiftee> so on anything non named and below level 100
<11shiftee> that isn't immune they are unbelievable tanks
<11shiftee> as soon as a named spawns
<11shiftee> it is :/
<11Dre> I do like the idea of non-named mobs being not dangerous to tanks, to a certain degree
<11shiftee> just needs deleted and reworked into something else
<11@Elidroth> back
<11WarSheols> we just dont agree on that but thats fine
<11shiftee> we can agree to disagree
<11Synyster> can i disagree to agree?
<11WarSheols> wb
<11shiftee> but your classes mitigation wasn't revolving around stun working for years
<11WarSheols> well to be fare
<11WarSheols> for the first 5 years warriors didnt get any thing heh
<11shiftee> in a high dps group you can stun a mob and never get hit
<11shiftee> that enchanter video made it kinda :/ back on topic now though since eli is back
<11Beezy1> Since elidroth is back lets bring up faithful shiftee
<11shiftee> k
<11Dre> I think the question is how dangerous should a single trash mob be to a tank
<11@Elidroth> I hate Apple for switching to the Lightning connector
<11WarSheols> I get it warrior stunn not as good as pally is it? mines based off proc on;y
<11@Elidroth> now none of my accessories work
<11@Elidroth> anyway
<11Candara-Cazic> lol
<11Fatbuk> Apple. the Gap of Technology
<11Beezy1> Lol
<11shiftee> paladin ** paladin blessing of the faithful is our kill shot aa it lasts 1 minute and adds a dmg mod plus ac
<11shiftee> the damage mod doesn't need increased
<11WarSheols> Droid
<11shiftee> but we would like an aa line to extend the duration
<11shiftee> as well as an upgrade to the existing line to increase the ac portion
<11@Elidroth> I'm concerned about this enhancing swarming ability honestly
<11shiftee> the current proc rate is 25% and it often happens that the next mob is pulled with only 1/2 to 1/4 the duration left on the kill shot so that we only get a few attack rounds
<11shiftee> in a swarm
<11shiftee> the thing fires constantly anyways
<11shiftee> you could put something on it to keep it from reprocing
<11@Elidroth> yes.. so increase AC is a much bigger issue
<11Terminat> like Mortal Residue
<11shiftee> truth be told
<11shiftee> there isn't much for paladins to swarm
<11shiftee> unless it is with a group
<11Dre> Mortal residue is like a non issue. Idk why it even exists.
<11shiftee> and the ac benefit doesn't do much there
<11@Elidroth> Truth be told, I don't believe anyone who says 'Truth be told' in regards to something not being that beneficial
<11shiftee> it is currently like 100 ac
<11Terminat> Dre: true hehe
<11shiftee> that doesn't make or break a swarm
<11Beezy1> If you want elidroth you could make ours heal us each hit like the sk version?!
<11Beezy1> Kidding of course
<11shiftee> lol
<11Beezy1> But even if you don't want to up the ac, at least can we get extended duration?
<11shiftee> i'm not making up numbers to downplay it
<11@Elidroth> I'll look at it
<11shiftee> at the least can you increase the duration
<11Beezy1> Ok
<11shiftee> that works
<11shiftee> just a matter of it procing and then not getting to use it
<11shiftee> someone requested it so i threw it out there
<11Beezy1> Correct

<11@Elidroth> ugh.. this is the worst Woot-Off in recent memory
<11shiftee> wth is a woot-off
<11@Elidroth> hahahahhaa
<11Candara-Cazic> lol
<11@Elidroth> sorry.. wrong channel
<11Candara-Cazic> haha
<11shiftee> haha
<11Candara-Cazic> Elidroth is boxing!!
<11Beezy1> Lol
<11WarSheols> should I google that?
<11Shang> woooooooot
<11@Elidroth> woot.com
<11@Elidroth> deal a day site
<11@Elidroth> except in a woot-off they run multiple items back to back to back
<11shiftee> ok so here is an old one but a good one
<11Dre> Warrior weapon stances - Would it be possible to get a 'shield block' type Parry chance added to dual wield, and a similar Riposte chance for 2H to help even out the avoidance in our weapon stances?
<11Beezy1> Lol
<11@Elidroth> No
<11Fatbuk> the bacon flavored chapstick on woot the other day was only 99 cents!
<11@Elidroth> Dre.. DW will not be a tanking stance

<11shiftee> paladin Act of Valor 2.0 - instead of just passing your current health to a player would it be possible to upgrade the aa so that you can also transfer 40% mana and 40% endurance to them as well?
<11Dre> taking off the shield already guarantees that
<11WarSheols> DW your not holding a shield you shouldnt get the benifits
<11shiftee> you are afterall killing yoruself in the process
<11WarSheols> Question, warrior combat ability Field Guardian any chance of getting it extended a tiny bit to?
<11@Elidroth> those are spell questions guys
<11@Elidroth> not AA things
<11@Elidroth> I really don't want to be doing too much to Aristo's spells ESPECIALLY on current content abilities
<11Beezy1> Act of valor is aa
<11WarSheols> it refreshes fast I fel like im just spamming it some times heh
<11shiftee> he was replying to the warriors i think beezy
<11WarSheols> ok will stick to AAs
<11Beezy1> Ah he said guys so just assumed he meant you also
<11Dre> Any chance of 3 more ranks to hastened scowl to make our hate discs match up?
<11WarSheols> The recent Gut Punch change, how much was it tuned back about 50% or more?
<11@Elidroth> I don't think I want to mess with Act of Valor
<11@Elidroth> 50%
<11shiftee> ok
<11WarSheols> thanks had been wondering
<11shiftee> just trying to make it useful instead of just splatting us
<11shiftee> paladin ** currently the cleric version of AA Divine Aura is instant cast, any chance the paladin version can get a 2nd rank to adjust our cast time to instant as well?
<11@Elidroth> I may update Gut Punch again to do something else.. the accuracy debuff was just nuts
<11@Elidroth> it was much too good
<11Dre> Shrug I use it mostly for the hate anyway.
<11@Elidroth> that's because people didn't really analyze what it did
<11@Elidroth> At least 1 guild had a rotation going causing the npc accuracy to drop to almost nothing
<11Synyster> i wonder who that was~
<11shiftee> lol it stacked?
<11@Elidroth> I'm not saying, but it wasn't ROI if that's what you're thinking
<11WarSheols> I am sure thy did heh
<11@Elidroth> it didn't stack, but if you rotated warriors you could have it on the npc at all times
<11@Elidroth> no.. I watched them a lot when they didn't know I was there
<11shiftee> i don't know why people think roi cheats so much
<11shiftee> just a handful of a lot of high end dedicated players all congregated in one place
<11@Elidroth> people always think that way
<11Synyster> elidroth said roi not me
<11@Elidroth> when I was in Fires of Heaven, people thought the same about us
<11Qwestmode> damn those roi ruffians
<11WarSheols> well they do seem to find unintended uses for things
<11@Elidroth> people on Druzzil Ro thought the same of Hoss when I was there too
<11shiftee> any word on your ideas of paladin da getting bumped to instant eli?
<11Beezy1> People think I cheat cause I do so much with a paladin
<11Beezy1> Not kidding of course
<11Beezy1> Ok maybe a little
<11@Elidroth> I haven't given it much thought
<11Shang> RoI was generally powerful enough to brute force any fight while I was there without gimmicks.. The casual guilds I've been apart of prior to that used neat tricks way more than RoI.
<11shiftee> ^
<11shiftee> that was my experience as well
<11Synyster> i have other end game guilds in mind when i think cheaters/exploiters
<11Synyster> but none of that matters talk about your aa people~
<11WarSheols> I restarted on th sleeper was in SD the #2 guild on big kill board
<11@Elidroth> hehe
<11Shang> But, Expecting RoI's warriors to do a Gut Punch chain is simply laughable... Considering when Rangers got Volatile/Glacial, and asked if we were going to chain it, the general response was, 'got better things to do'
<11shiftee> i have another aa request but didn't want to bomard eli
<11shiftee> more than i already am
<11Beezy1> Paladins always come prepared
<11@Elidroth> yeah.. people need to make sure they're high up in the parse.. to hell with making things easier kill for everyone if it harms your parse numbers
<11Shang> are you saying the slayer tasks that add 133 dps aren't worth it? =p
<11shiftee> i think gut punch was a lack of examination on what it did, because we always rotated the useful things
<11Beezy1> With how well we per pared last year, elidroth should have expected us to ask a lot
<11@Elidroth> keep going
<11shiftee> instant da? lol
<11@Elidroth> I have a meeting in 90 minutes where I get to see what's inside the super secret black box!
<11@Elidroth> Instant no
<11shiftee> ok
<11shiftee> moving on
<11Fatbuk> Super Secret EQNext Black Box?
<11@Elidroth> I didn't say anything
<11Fatbuk> ><
<11Shang> It's actually SoE's acquiring of Hello Kitty Island Adventure.
<11shiftee> Divine inspiration : allows the paladin to proc a 3k mana return when casting a heal that saves someone below 25% health.
<11shiftee> 3k mana negotiable
<11Beezy1> Lol
<11Beezy1> That would be badass
<11WarSheols> Sklug told me Next hands on next year back to AAs
<11@Elidroth> I'm not even sure how I'd set that up
<11shiftee> but you gotta admit
<11shiftee> it is a great idea
<11shiftee> lol
<11@Elidroth> triggered abilities don't respect requirements right now.
<11Beezy1> Lol
<11Fatbuk> would it work on single target heals, group heals, or both?
<11@Elidroth> so that kind of makes that hard to do
<11shiftee> hmmm
<11Beezy1> Make it passive and a lot lower mana return
<11@Elidroth> passive?
<11shiftee> a mana return on heals
<11@Elidroth> you do realize any ability that causes something else to fire is triggered right?
<11Crystilla> (sounds more spell like)
<11Beezy1> Hmmm
<11shiftee> 200 mana proc @ 2,4,6% when we cast any heal
<11Fatbuk> self buff AA
<11@Elidroth> not a fan
<11@Elidroth> again.. I need to talk to Aristo about your mana situation
<11shiftee> ok
<11shiftee> i still say divine inspiration would be rad but i can see how that would be tough
<11shiftee> ok so next one
<11shiftee> can we please separate paladin yaulp and cleric yaulp aa's once and for all
<11shiftee> rename the paladin one to something paladin like
<11Synyster> could u give them an aa heal that can only be triggered under 25% health that would grant them the mana return?
<11shiftee> we have heals
<11shiftee> that trigger under 45% fo rmore healing
<11shiftee> 2 minute recast or 2.5 can't rightly recall offhand
<11@Elidroth> no Shiftee.. Yaulp is really not a big topic
<11shiftee> well i was going to ask for the haste to be upgraded to 50%
<11shiftee> but often when we share something we get a no b/c it is shared
<11Beezy1> Valor of marr aa!
<11shiftee> we got a self haste spell at a low level i want to say level 39 and it was never upgraded in the % but potions are readily available
<11shiftee> to everyone
<11Beezy1> I think the haste is called valor of marr
<11shiftee> it is
<11Beezy1> Hey abaz
<11shiftee> it was level 44
<11Dre> On Dual Wield becoming good DPS for Warriors, would it make sense to get a raw damage mod like shield spec/merciless blade?
<11shiftee> and increases haste by 25%
<11Abazzagorath> Work sucks, I assume everything has been covered umpteen million times
<11shiftee> just going down the lists from the websites people posted on abazz
<11shiftee> if you have anything unique you want addressed send me a pm and i'll let you know if we talked about it or not
<11shiftee> with that siad then elidroth, can you make another rank of the aa yaulp for both classes that upgrades the haste to 50% or adjust the existing rank to match potions and clicky items
<11@Elidroth> shockingly, I haven't been saying "No" to everything either
<11@Elidroth> no shiftee
<11Candara-Cazic> lol
<11@Elidroth> absolutely not
<11Fatbuk> haha
<11Tura> lol
<11shiftee> lol
<11shiftee> line of reasoning:
<11Beezy1> If you have sent me a pm on here I just now saw them since I'm on iPad
<11shiftee> i have potion haste
<11Dre> you will camp cbq belt and like it !
<11shiftee> and i hit yaulp
<11shiftee> yaulp haste does nothing
<11shiftee> if the haste effects were equal i could stop buying the potions
<11Mykaylla> I would send more banana bread for cleric yaulp. Clerics cannot use lizardscale plated girdle. And I have no problem with paladins getting 50% haste from yaulp also.
<11@Elidroth> I'm not going to give you a reason to not buy potions. Potions are intended to be a utility when you can't get a buff from a real player
<11shiftee> yaulp is the equivalent to the old man mckenzie sword that has a haste click
<11shiftee> but we already have a level 44 spell that provides haste and so does the yaulp aa
<11shiftee> if we are going to have these things, doesn't it stand to reason that they actually provide meaningful benefit?
<11shiftee> i mean who in their right mind would rely on 25% haste at this stage of the game
<11shiftee> almost anyone at levle 100 can solo the crag beast queen
<11Beezy1> Except warriors......
<11Dre> which leads to it never being up for more than 20 seconds
<11shiftee> solo or with a merc
<11shiftee> it is the same thing
<11@Elidroth> First World Problems..
<11shiftee> lol
<11Mykaylla> Warriors can equip a piercer and annihilate her too.
<11Beezy1> Lol
<11shiftee> i'm just speaking of practicality
<11Dre> My cleric merc doesnt work on Anguish runs ><
<11shiftee> just seems like an arbitrary restriction just for the sake of restricting it
<11shiftee> like you are ok with us buying 50% haste
<11shiftee> for 10 plat
<11shiftee> but not ok with us learning how to cast it after 100 levels lol
<11shiftee> technically since we are over 2x the level we learned 25% haste 100 would be a good level to double the potency of the spell we learned at level 44
<11shiftee> unflawed logic!
<11Candara-Cazic> lol
<11@Elidroth> you're still talking?
<11Synyster> well played shiftee
<11shiftee> lol
<11WarSheols> lol
<11shiftee> i'm going to stack potions, cbq, crystaline sword, yaulp and valor of marr in all my eq sessions in your honor elidroth!
<11Synyster> lawl
<11shiftee> Ok so, can we have more buff slots?
<11@Elidroth> lol
<11@Elidroth> no
<11shiftee> lol
<11Voodoman> can everybody except shiftie have mroe buff slots?
<11@Elidroth> no
<11Beezy1> Elidroth since your skeptical about giving paladins group armor of the inquisitor, any chance you would be willing add a parry mod to it?
<11shiftee> but i need more space to for yaulp and haste?
<11Voodoman> WOW MAN WHATEVER
<11Tura> 2 no's in a row how the tides have turned make that 3
<11shiftee> ok all kidding aside moving along
<11@Elidroth> who was kidding?
<11Qwestmode> moar spell bar slots 2013
<11shiftee> did you and aristo decide post beta about more spell gem slots
<11@Elidroth> it's not up for us to decide. It's limited in code currently.
<11shiftee> well yes
<11@Elidroth> or.. we can decide all we want, but without code support we can't do anything
<11shiftee> but you decide if you want to put int he request
<11Qwestmode> make rtugok do it, problem solved
<11@Elidroth> So far we're leaning towards "No"
<11shiftee> galumph

<11Voodoman> you guys lean a lot don't you
<11Abazzagorath> Someone let me know that you said "maybe" to more slay undead ranks. Considering its one of those things that is always "meh" or "holy crap" too good, due to scaling and riposte, etc. Have you thought about changing it up a little and giving us a new aa slay line, which is essentially a decapitate like ability (spell proc innate, so can't proc on riposte unless you have the npc targetted),
<11Abazzagorath> that is body type instead of level capped, and gives big eye candy hits at a frequency you can control?
<11shiftee> standard upgrades (someone asked passing it along) are you going to upgrade speed of the knight, burst of power or flurry at all
<11Beezy1> Even a small parry mod would be nice
<11@Elidroth> Abazz.. that's a really good idea.. and unfortunately not possible as I can't put requirements on AA yet
<11shiftee> create an imbue like inquisitors judgement that lasts like 4 hours that has a fixed ppm to do dmg to undead only?
<11shiftee> or give us a bane strike aa that is limited to undead body type that does 100k dmg instead of 8k with a refresh equal to how much dps you want it to do?
<11Beezy1> Upgraded silvered fury line!
<11Beezy1> But that's a spell
<11Abazzagorath> Was worth a shot, I love the way I grew up with slay, huge eye candy that was uncontrollable/unreliable but when it went off, eyes popped lol
<11@Elidroth> Slay is getting a new rank
<11Abazzagorath> Any details on the direction? Frequency or modifer or mix of both?
<11ImrahiLD> raid over, just wanted to say "hi" in here although I have been trying to read in here while wiping
<11shiftee> Divine stun - this aa allows us to push a mob away from us for 5 units, would it be possible to get a separate AA line that has a much larger unit of push to fling a mob away from us when desired. Alternatively you could copy divine call so that if the mob is within 20' of the player it gets pushed 50' away and persists for 3 tics.
<11Xeo> tbh
<11@Elidroth> no frequency
<11Dre> Can Warriors get an AA that gives us a version of battle leap effect without flinging us out of melee range/mob behind us?
<11@Elidroth> no
<11@Elidroth> I have no control over where you land unfortunately
<11Synyster> remove the jump ?
<11Dre> I mean one that just doesn't do the jump. Just adds the buff.
<11Abaz> I'm guessing someone already asked about the possibility of a 4th spire or new ranks of current spires?
<11@Elidroth> no spires
<11shiftee> i didnt ask b/c of that answer lol
<11Abaz> Its hard to come up with good paladin questions, because I feel like we're in a good spot overall =P
<11Dre> We have a couple versions of battle leap and all of them launch us in the air. One of them adds a stun. A stomping effect that stuns and adds the buff without leaping would be awesome.
<11shiftee> not sure if you answered no to my request or abazz
<11shiftee> or dre
<11@Elidroth> there's enough flinging going on
<11shiftee> ok
<11WarSheols> think its No to all lol
<11shiftee> Tunares Wrath - PBAE root 5 minute recast -500 resist check
<11@Elidroth> yeah.. no
<11shiftee> would add an element of unique gameplay for an unwanted add or 2 that you could root and then back up
<11Abaz> Act of Valor 2.0 = ae heal for 100k, 200 range, give us a reason to suicide? lol
<11shiftee> he said no to that abaz
<11Shang> Act of Valor 2.0 should kill the Paladin twice.
<11shiftee> @ the PBAE root with target limit of 6?
<11@Elidroth> you're not a crowd control class
<11@Elidroth> you're trying to make the pally into a one-size-fits-all clas
<11@Elidroth> class
<11Tura> 3 ranks of flurry and burst of power for sk/pal overlooked in RoF or intentional ?
<11shiftee> i'm going through the list of ideas over the past 3 years
<11shiftee> so no one feels under represented
<11Tura> think that question was missed in the spam
<11Abaz> Self-Sacrifice, turns all heals for 1 minute into 3x the healing, but does the 1x amount as damage to self?
<11shiftee> although pacify, fear, root and offtanking would argue against the idea that paladins don't play a part in CC
<11shiftee> he said maybe to another healing idea linked to VR
<11shiftee> abazz
<11Dre> Ok here's the list of requests for new Warrior Hastened lines: Hastened Rage of Rallos Zek
<11Dre> Hastened Mighty Strike Discipline
<11Dre> Hastened Barbed Tongue Discipline
<11Dre> Hastened Grappling Strike/Press the Attack
<11Dre> Hastened Shield Topple
<11Dre> Hastened Strategic Strike
<11Dre> Hastened Vehement Rage
<11@Elidroth> I had a few of those already
<11shiftee> i guess now is a good time to list the ones for paladin requests on that front
<11WarSheols> Mighty Strike needs hastened?
<11Dre> Just forwarding ideas.
<11Dre> Actually on that list, an AA version of Strategic Strike would be awesome since it's lockd out by Ridicule.
<11WarSheols> aince mob has to be beow 20% to use it usualy is up by next mob but is tied to one of the main agro abilities sorn?
<11Dre> Long lockout is long and my pullers are fast. I can't currently use it atm.
<11Abaz> hastened speed of the savior would rock
<11WarSheols> but its not the only sgro grabber AA we have
<11WarSheols> agro^
<11shiftee> Extended sanctification discipline
<11shiftee> Extended Speed of the savior
<11shiftee> Extended Preservation – preservation of marr duration increase
<11shiftee> Extended Shield of Brilliance
<11shiftee> Extended Blessing of the faithful
<11Dre> WS I'm not sure we're discussing same thing. I'll PM you
<11Beezy1> Heading out, later all
<11shiftee> and then the hastened
<11shiftee> Hastened speed of the savior
<11shiftee> Hastened Marr’s salvation
<11shiftee> Hastened shield of brilliance
<11shiftee> oh and hastened radiant cure
<11Abazzagorath> you use radiant cure? =/
<11WarSheols> Lets wait for him to say No 15 times before we bombard him again lol
<11shiftee> with the remove to cure detriment on the new splash
<11shiftee> won't we all?
<11@Elidroth> no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no
<11shiftee> lol that's a lot of no
<11WarSheols> hehe
<11Dre> Mr. Tronono
<11Shang>
<11Abazzagorath> I'll just use the old splash, like everyone else or until aristo comes to his senses =P
<11ImrahiLD> the splash nerf is still meh btw 8and yes, I know, not your department, Eli)
<11shiftee> well yeah
<11ImrahiLD> and i agree abazz
<11shiftee> but hastened radiant cure always bugged me that we never got it
<11ImrahiLD> i sort of agree, RC could get some hastening, sometimes it can be useful
<11WarSheols> Oh an AA from general tab was Sturdiness discontinued?
<11Abazzagorath> I end up using it so little, when I do need it I'm like scanning trying to find the hotkey hah
<11Dre> So Eli to recap Warrior weapon stances... S+B not changing... DW should get more DPS (haven't seen any 'yes' to ideas here?) and 2h weapons some type of large crit damage effect. is this how you envision stances?
<11ImrahiLD> Did I miss the answer to Tura's question? Quoting: "3 ranks of flurry and burst of power for sk/pal overlooked in RoF or intentional ?"
<11@Elidroth> General Sturdiness wasn't discontinued.. It was just.. fixed.
<11@Elidroth> intentional.. flurry is already too high for many classes
<11@Elidroth> same for triple attack
<11WarSheols> There where several yes and maybes early on
<11Digitus> war can use more triple attack
<11@Elidroth> everyone can use more, but some classes don't need/shouldn't get more
<11shiftee> well those ranks aside
<11shiftee> how bout knights "speed of the knight"
<11shiftee> the additional chance for an attack with a 2her?
<11Dre> Speed of the Knight and Punishing Blade I think are same AA. Should be equalized for all classes if so.
<11shiftee> that's fine by me didn't want to speak for wars on that though
<11WarSheols> Hope some one got the whole ting logged my crash ruined mine
<11@Elidroth> Why should they be equal?
<11Abazzagorath> because there are COMMUNISTS here! muahaha!
<11shiftee> *shrug*
<11shiftee> b/c i asked for it and can't think of a reason wars shouldn't get it
<11Abazzagorath> But no reason for them to be equal
<11shiftee> i don't care either way
<11shiftee> just going over the things paladins could use
<11@Elidroth> I was thinking I'd make wars better
<11shiftee> paladin passive melee is on the low end even modded by bard song unless burning
<11@Elidroth> cause you know.. I used to play a war
<11Abazzagorath> Give hybrids a bunch of ranks of mind and body rejuvenation, that would be helpful
<11Dre> Anything that helps out our 2h DPS I'm good for. Because right now it's 1h+shield 24x7
<11Dre> and unless your name is Battleaxe nobody likes it
<11@Elidroth> heh
<11Digitus> rather prefer some stuff to help Wars close the gap on group tanking compared to SK's
<11ImrahiLD> lol
<11@Elidroth> I need to nerf dps in 1h/shield and increase DW and 2h dps
<11Shang> you do, yes.
<11ImrahiLD> sounds logical
<11WarSheols> No
<11Dre> ISS is also a weird implementation. The big/slow proc doesn't really help out agro wise.
<11Digitus> leave 1h/shield just make the others more dps /nod
<11Abazzagorath> Yep, I agree, and so did most warriors when you last put in more SS ranks and they said "Why?"
<11WarSheols> We all orked hard on all those lines of AAs just for the use of the shield
<11Shang> aww
<11Abazzagorath> Warriors 1h/shield situation reminds me of knights pre UF when we had just received 25% SS and 2hers were out of whack still
<11Dre> I thought you got SS in UF?
<11Abazzagorath> Do you remember how long it took to get into Convorteum in UF and get 2h weapons? =P
<11shiftee> lol
<11Abazzagorath> We rocked corrupted soul piercer for awhile, most of us =P
<11shiftee> the dmg mods arne't all bad
<11ImrahiLD> was a worthy expansion
<11shiftee> but yeah
<11Dre> They're not all bad but Warrior swing dps with 1h is terrible
<11shiftee> everyones swing dps non dps class is bad
<11shiftee> and wars are better than most
<11Dre> sorry i meant swing agro not dps
<11shiftee> well knight swing aggro isn't that high either when swinging at 34 dly and higher weapons
<shiftee> but you are getting activated aggro help
<shiftee> so that should be good
[16:55] <WarSheols> As a warrior you seriously would sacrafice your mitigation for dps? any one?
[16:55] <Dre> I would situationally via weapon stances if I'm not tanking or tanking easier content.
[16:55] <shiftee> ^
[16:56] <Abazzagorath> Aye, everyone should be doing what they can for dps

[16:56] <Augok> in a raid situation Warsheols sure I would... if I'm not tanking I dont need the mitigation and bandoleer is only one press away if I get close on agro
[16:56] <shiftee> elidroth this is probably a shot in the dark
[16:56] <Digitus> I wouldn't, for tank class anything that makes you mitigate dmg is only priority
[16:57] <shiftee> but with the addition of things like IVU to mages and wizards is there any chance that the IVU classes can get some form of real invisibility? for the sake of fairness?
[16:57] <Abazzagorath> Sorry Digitus, but that is just not playing to your potential
[16:57] <ImrahiLD> lots of the time you are not tanking in raid
[16:57] <Abazzagorath> Maximizing dps when tanking does not preclude maximizing avoidance/mitigation when tanking
[16:57] <Shang> if a Warrior is trying to DPS, and he's using a shield, something's not right.
[16:57] <Abazzagorath> As long as any discs/abilities between both paths are not linked, you don't have to choose, you can click off discs, bandolier weaposn,e tc
[16:58] <Digitus> I'm not going to say no to any dps given, but not at the cost of mitigation
[16:58] <shiftee> eli you still reading this or did you head out?
[16:58] <Dre> Then Digitus use a shield all the time, be my guest. It should be a choice for those of us who want it though.
[16:58] <@Elidroth> I'm reading
[16:58] <@Elidroth> I'm not giving out any more Invis
[16:59] <Abazzagorath> How about potions stacking to 100? =P
[16:59] <Digitus> warriors main issue is not weapons, it's trying to get the group tanking up to where SK's are.
[16:59] <ImrahiLD> still using my fabled BP then, npnp
[16:59] <shiftee> ok
[16:59] <@Elidroth> Warriors just got another 5 ranks of Phalanx of One + agro
[16:59] <Augok> well in 2 days time
[17:00] <WarSheols> Warriors are not DPSers trying to make change that just dont make a ot of sence to me
[17:00] <@Elidroth> agreed
[17:00] <@Elidroth> I don't like the warriors trying to be dps classes
[17:00] <Dre> Agree our issues are on the tanking side. I don't think there's any degree of mitigation that can compare with knight healing
[17:00] <@Elidroth> they're job is to get hit and take it
[17:00] <shiftee> Paladin self only Divine intervention? possible or no, it is requested every year. can make it cost blue diamonds or something
[17:00] <Dre> unless youre tanking raid named
[17:00] <Digitus> 10% mitigation still doesn't compare to SK's
[17:00] <Augok> lol blue diamonds are 10 a penny nowdays shiftee
[17:01] <ImrahiLD> 238 PP when sold
[17:01] <Abazzagorath> Don't see a reason for self DI, but if it ever did happen, I'd imagine an essence emerald would be a better choice
[17:01] <shiftee> just bringing it up
[17:01] <shiftee> if we didn't have a pegasus i'd bring that up too...
[17:02] <Abazzagorath> *slaps Shiftee with a large trout*
[17:02] <Mykaylla> A stolen piece of someone's soul that a necromancer sacrificed, for a divine champion to receive the god's protection? You make me a sad panda.
[17:03] <shiftee> lol
[17:03] <Dre> I mean even if we had defensive running all the time there's still situations where Knights just dont need healing at all.
[17:03] <Abazzagorath> You really want paladin self DI? Make it proc -10% exp loss in level hah
[17:03] <shiftee> what if the essence emerald was generated from uses of act of valor?
[17:03] <Mykaylla> I don't care about pally DI- I'm a cleric. I just think using essence emeralds is sad panda
[17:04] <Mykaylla> Ha! that would be hilarious!
[17:04] <Shang> ruining my immersion.
[17:04] <shiftee> :/
[17:04] <shiftee> paladin DI comes up every yaer
[17:04] <shiftee> year*
[17:04] <Shang> notice you don't have it yet. weird
[17:04] <shiftee> no time like the present to put it in game
[17:04] <Abazzagorath> Because people can't let silent piety go
[17:04] <shiftee> druids/shaman both got a version
[17:04] <@Elidroth> yep.. and every year we say no
[17:05] <shiftee> i can't let go of thunder of karana
[17:05] <Abazzagorath> Man, you had to bring it up
[17:05] <Abazzagorath> ToK sit in 2001! Represent!
[17:05] <MetravTriton> add a second level of act of valor and make it a pbae heal around your target!
[17:05] <ImrahiLD> OK, it's midnight over here and I gotta work tomorrow (lots of stuff to do before end of year), so good night all in here and thanks to Elidroth for not saying "no" to everything
[17:05] <shiftee> also, to be fair to all points of view
[17:05] <shiftee> I'm supposed to ask
[17:05] <@Elidroth> hehehe
[17:05] <Mykaylla> Was already mentioned and no was the answer, MetravTriton
[17:06] <@Elidroth> later Imrahil
[17:06] <MetravTriton> sorry just joined chat =P
[17:06] <shiftee> otherwise i'm only asking for stuff that I think is cool
[17:06] <MetravTriton> and actually - just making sure i'm set up for ranger day tomorrow - so good night and good luck =)
[17:07] <Digitus> swarm pets for pallies, little knights on horses attacking their target
[17:07] <Shang> oh jeez.
[17:07] <Abazzagorath> Here's something that I'm sure with a little ingenuity you could make into a paladin aa, "Race Change to Barbarian, mith marr worshipper"! Barbarian paladin would make me jump on that in a heartbeat!
[17:07] <Fatbuk> just want EQ needs. more swarm
[17:07] <shiftee> Light of the Pure - (Flash of light upgrade) 15 min reuse - decreases mob accuracy for 3 minutes
[17:08] <Dre> Eli, another idea that was kicked around was a block spell/melee hit effect to Infused by Rage procs. Kind of like the Magician Iceflame line. Thoughts?
[17:08] <Abazzagorath> Don't hate on swarming, its how an antisocial paladin who won't be named hit 100 =P
[17:08] <Mykaylla> Not that kind of swarm!
[17:08] <@Elidroth> so are we done here? because all you guys are doing now is throwing out ridiculous ideas
[17:09] <Shang> we can start rangers early!
[17:09] <Dre> I'm forwarding for others, trying not to filter sorry.
[17:09] <Abazzagorath> Go, eat drink and be merry (and get those aa in before February plskthx!)
[17:09] <Digitus> actually, how bout some warcrys for warriors, some abilities you can hit that will give some very short term buffs
[17:09] <shiftee> oh and elidroth
[17:09] <@Elidroth> no.. actually I have a lot to talk to Aristo about, and have other work to do too
[17:09] <shiftee> I'm supposed to ask you
[17:09] <WarSheols> Yeah its all goofy now
[17:09] <@Elidroth> that's been discussed Digitus
[17:09] <Digitus> ahh, ok nice
[17:09] <@Elidroth> I'm fine with it so long as people understand they won't be useful in raids
[17:09] <Shang> Okay.. While you talk to Aristo about Paladin mana, will you ditto everything paladins said, and then do the speach again and replace paladin with Ranger?
[17:09] <shiftee> annihilate undead, any chance to get an aa for paladins to reduce the cast time to .5 or .75?
[17:10] <WarSheols> was a kit if great chat specialy early on
[17:10] <WarSheols> lot of*
[17:10] <Abazzagorath> End running around aristo shiftee? lol
[17:10] <shiftee> someone asked!!!!!
[17:10] <@Elidroth> no shiftee
[17:10] <Digitus> anything is better then nothing, even if it's group only or for the group aspect of the game
[17:10] <Dre> Anything that's more +group effect without translating to raid I think is great. Raid warriors will always have a role, but group Warriors are like the laughingstock of EQ
[17:10] <shiftee> i know you guys think i'm awesome but let'd be real even I don't have this many good ideas
[17:10] <@Elidroth> it's almost time for me to go to my super secret meeting too
[17:11] <Abazzagorath> Just accept annihilate isn't worth memming, its like accepting the noodly goodness of the flying spaghetti monster, you gotta have faith man
[17:11] <Shang> did someone order you lunch yet
[17:11] <shiftee> yeah abazz i've even tried casting it and i watch the dps drop off everytime makes me laugh
[17:11] <Digitus> is there a place where it has the whole transcript? I missed most due to being at work
[17:11] <shiftee> i have most of the transcript saved
[17:11] <Candara-Cazic> Gotta run, but want to say thanks to Elidroth for hosting. later
[17:11] <shiftee> debating on where i will paste it
[17:12] <@Elidroth> Aristo brought me lunch
[17:12] <Abazzagorath> Rorce is here, so hopefully eqresource will have it up at some point
[17:12] <shiftee> oh good point
[17:12] <shiftee> i edited them last year
[17:12] <Abazzagorath> Thanks for listening Elidroth
[17:12] <shiftee> to remove all the people joining and leaving
[17:12] <Fatbuk> I only saved Zerkkin's requests
[17:12] <@Elidroth> lol
[17:12] <@Elidroth> he was priceless
[17:12] <Tharkis> hahaha zerkkin
[17:12] <Shang> that guy
[17:13] <shiftee> well if you are leaving elidroth /wave and thanks
[17:13] <shiftee> i'm anxious to use this channel to complain about the devs so don't stay logged in
[17:14] <Dre> Yes thanks for doing these, it wasn't the hilarity of n00bing I suspected a public chat to be lol
[17:14] <Hatsee> That's for tomorrow.
[17:14] <Shang> Tomorrow, yeah
[17:14] <shiftee> it has the same # of people as the beta chats
[17:14] <shiftee> and only has the same people in it
[17:14] <shiftee> lol
[17:14] <shiftee> open format didn't really end up all that open
[17:15] <@Elidroth> it works fine here
[17:15] <shiftee> but i do have about 60 pm boxes right now my computer is litered with popularity
[17:15] <Rouan> Probably because only people who have used IRC before ever figure it out in time
[17:15] <WarSheols> was nice not to spammy
[17:15] <Abazzagorath> I last used IRC in like 1998 =P
[17:16] <shiftee> lol those days of IRC were scary
[17:16] <shiftee> a/s/l
[17:16] <WarSheols> I just use Mibbit is so easy
[17:16] <shiftee> just saying
[17:16] <Rouan> I put on my wizard hat and robes
[17:16] <Shang> 14/f/florida
[17:16] <Fatbuk> 12/female/korea
[17:16] <Abazzagorath> I was in college, first time I'd used the internet back in 1995, was really disturbing
[17:16] <Mykaylla> Watch out, Rouan's about to cast level 3 eroticism
[17:16] <@Elidroth> yep.. I'm headed out, though I'll still be logged in here
[17:17] <@Elidroth> I'll be back later though
[17:17] <shiftee> later eli thanks for chatting
[17:17] <Fatbuk> Rhinoceruses don't play games
[17:17] <shiftee> i look forward to paladin 50% haste!
[17:17] <Mykaylla> Enjoy your sooper sekrit meeting
[17:17] <Digitus> later Elid
[17:17] <WarSheols> Bye Elidroth

Special thanks to Elidroth for hosting the chats and to Rouan for editing out some white noise from the log. See you pals in game.

Another year of class input from those who don't play the classes, gotta love it~

I am so happy rangers got mentioned right off the bat in a non-ranger chat. Our place is still assured at the top of the class envy list.

Your happy they said no updates for headshot? woot

Thanks for posting this and collecting paladin ideas, and thanks to Elidroth for listening.

yea, thanks for post, sucks i missed chat, was hoping to get blessing of faithful to proc off green mobs / possibly greys. couple ranks of RC / hastened RC ... =/ hastened spires.... 1st / 3rd anyway

lol Voodooman

Thank you.
/pictures a paladin slapping a mob with a book

No no, warriors would be slapping them, with paladin books.

Seemed like a wash for warriors in general. I wish we'd forget the idea of ever using 2h or DW again, it takes the focus off more important things. Though I do like more ranks of Phalanx (obv not related to the IRC chat).

That being said, I did not have the time to participate nor am I really too great at generating ideas...and I do thank the guys that did post on behalf of the warrior class.

If nothing else comes of this, I hope that at least we get Flash of Anger on a separate timer

Thank you for posting this.

Interesting read, hopefully we get some upgrades for both classes

Perhaps its just these classes don't lend themselves to new things, but I was a little surprised most of the conversation was devoted to asking for upgrades to existing lines ( one of the things most people complained about in beta, lack of new stuff ). A few things got tossed ( though most were so far out they got rejected fairly quick ). I'm not a war/pal so I just listened, but was interested to see what people wanted to do and where they wanted to take their class.

I think part of this lends itself to the fact that class balance for all classes has come a long way. Some classes will push for more raid utility, some for a little more dps, some for more power at the group level, and others will just want some quality of life adjustments and upgrades to do what they do better. Introducing powerful new abilities outside the scope of what the devs believe your class role is is hard to justify in most cases, unless you can effectively prove why your class kit should evolve in such a direction.

That being said, I believe that proposing some of the crazier ideas are just as important in these chats, and even if 9/10s of them get shot down the ones that do get dev backing can take your class in a lot of fun new directions.

another year and another pointless aa chat for warriors to join.