[WAR] 2H vs DW - future development

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Dre., Dec 17, 2013.

  1. Ranpha Augur

    This already exists. See MMM, Krond:

    Whoever is in Krond's target must have a specific weapon setup, according to the weapons he's equipped:

    Spears = 1hander + Shield
    Gears = 1hs + 1hs
    Axes = 2hs
    Swords = 1hb + 1hs

    If you donot have the right setup, the mob will start flurrying. Note that Warriors at that time in that expansion tanked this mob just fine with ALL setups.
  2. Coruth Augur

    Dual Wield is pretty easy to fix
    AA lines that effect the Off Hand

    Normal 2 Ways you modify DPS
    1) Damage Mods (Think of it as Shield Specialist for Off Hands)
    2) Procs (you could even do a life tap type proc since without Ripo Triggers there wont be swarming, hundred hands, dds, etc)

    Outside the Box
    3) AA that lets warriors use other classes weapons in off hand only. Priest/Monk (1hbs)/Knight weapons all have higher ratios


    Fixing 2H is harder. How do you make it useful sometimes

    Up the damage but lower than Dual Wield

    Then give it some bonuses like
    1) Big Reduction even Immune to Damage Shield (On top of the it hits less)
    2) Give it some defensive help so its better defense than dual wield. Staff Block AA line for example.
  3. Dre. Altoholic

    Adding my opinions here:

    When and how should 2H outperform Dual Wield?
    Defensive damage and avoidance.
    Method: 'Warlord's Heavy Weapon Mastery'
    Description: Each rank provides an large increase to the Warrior's chance to riposte incoming attacks when using two-handed weapons.
    Mechanic: Chance equal to that granted by 'staff block'

    When and how should Dual Wield outperform 2H?
    DPS against a single target
    Method: 'Furious Temperament'
    Description: Each rank increases the damage dealt by one-handed weapons and adds a chance to proc 'Blade Fury'. Blade Fury will proc more frequently with higher ranks of this ability and when Dual Wielding.
    Mechanic: Blade Fury already exists in game.
  4. Morgoth Elder

    I cant for the life of me thinking in real life terms see how a big 2 hander would be more defensive than Dual Wield? It seems just the opposite to me.
  5. Dre. Altoholic

    Large, long-reaching and sweeping attacks keeping your opponent(s) at bay. Ideally suited against multiple weak enemies.

    RL aside, there is a clear trend in EverQuest that DW>2H>1H when classes have access to multiple weapon configurations.

    Additionally, Knights have better weapons that generate higher damage per riposte than Warrior weapons. Higher riposte rate for Warriors helps balance this out. Knights' advantage vs multiple enemies is their self healing, while we get avoidance.

    Third, it sets a paradigm for tank DPS which is Tank1H<Tank2H<WarriorDW that is consistent with the trend for melee DPS above.

    I'm concerned whether DW being a 'middle' option is adding any real desirability. I think most of the time you'll see a Warrior going either full defense or full offense. If you want to DW again, making it the best DPS option will guarantee it gets used.

    Finally, the HHE proc is an overall boost to Warrior DPS regardless of stances, which is something we need desperately.
  6. Battleaxe Augur

    DW never had a role with the armored men-at-arms that made up the order of battle in Greek, Roman, and up to High Medieval conflict.

    It was spear/lance and shield and then short sword and shield when if the battle broke down to general melee and distanced closed.

    This gave way to longer "Viking swords" and shield then later arming swords and shield during Medieval warfare. In the late medieval period shields were often set aside once you had closed in favor of longer heavier swords to counter halberds and poleaxes which began allowing more lightly clad men-at-arms to yank the heavily armored off their feet or use the leverage of longer weapons to generate armor piercing or slicing force that shorter weapons wouldn't generate. (see Richard III and the back of his helmet and skull likely sliced off by a poleaxe).

    DW had a short heyday as a Florentine style of dueling favored by fencers (that would be the late 16th early 17th century cloth wearing duelists often seen in swashbuckling movies). This explains why the definition of parry Mak quoted mentions fencing. Its rather easier to deflect a rapier with a rapier or a foil with a foil than a foil deflecting a Giant Zweihander or dragon's clawed paw I would assume.

    Weapon evolution happened the way it happened because of the way things work. It wasn't random or arbitrary.

    Ya, EQ is not medieval battle simulation. But with two of the three classes that tank nodding in the direction of realism and by far most of the DWing classes not even being tanks....

    Besides, as noted DW has long been greater DPS for the classes that can use it than 2H would be.

    It's one thing to suggest that EQ needn't be consistent with the real world (although many of us go to Ren Fairs etc. or watch battle recreations - they do that a lot in England so I hear. Can't take a step without tripping over a shield.) It's quite another to suggest EQ shouldn't even be consistent with itself.
  7. juddor Elder

    I would like to see a return to 2 weapon fighting as main set up.

    2 weapons being best melee mitigation.. middle DPS
    sword and board being best spell/AE/ranged mitigation.. lowest dps
    2h being worse defense... highest dps

    Move shield focus to parry focus, and switch the AA's around, and remove shield specialist and keep it on knights.

    also

    I think history should be taken lightly here with comparisons, generic soldiers where trained in modes that gave the best bang for the buck.. spear and shield is easy to train... Our chars are supposed to be the paragons of combat, so anything goes... We are assumed to have surpassed basic training and set standards...