VP key ground spawns remind me why I quit this game for half a decade.

Fair enough point. However, even if TL had Trak on lock down, didn't mean that the rest of the guilds (I was in RoP/CE at the time) didn't make it a priority to at least get as much of the components as we could. On server launch there was lots of contention for the pieces--namely Kaesora and Swamp. Just not the degree of contention as is going on Agnarr, granted! And I do remember quite a few DPS/FFA moments in Kaesora specifically where the non-TL people agreed to team up and keep a list of who would get the next fang (just an example).

I don't know that I agree Agnarr has 10 times the population that Ragefire had at the same point in progression.

But, again... I see your point. But my overarching point stands: that piece is valuable because of what people are willing to pay. If using your logic that people on Ragefire didn't put much effort into pieces (even though we actually did) because TL had a lock on it anyway, you can say the same here: if krono farmers have a lock on the pieces, maybe the rest of you shouldn't put effort into trying to get that piece. Unless, of course, you are willing to pay for it with krono. I'm not saying that because I agree with the krono farmer at all. It's just the reality of how EQ TLP 2017 is played. You can join them, or move on to something else.

You are correct. People will pay or fight or move on to something else. Which is exactly why we are saying something about it on the forums. Even though it is still unlikely to be changed. I dont want large numbers of people to move on to something else. That makes this game less enjoyable for me. My guild raids in an off peak time. It works great for me and my chances of finding another guild that raids at a similar time is slim. Seeing 1/3 of our former raid roster vanish in the last month worries me. The start of an expansion is normally the strongest force you are going to have and people who maintained high attendance throughout classic have been dropping like flies because they can't pick up a bag in a swamp. Our guild wouldn't be in VP if we hadn't had that one guy with the skelly illusion and lots of time on his hands who grabbed a ton of swamp spawns for us. Or the necro/bard team that has aj down to a science. Still people get frustrated and quit. I don't like losing people.

^ This is the big thing about it that I just don't understand. We have had at least 5 or 6 people literally quit EQ, aka unsub and stop paying for it, and the reason for it has 100% been this key (And I know were gonna have more, theres already talk from other's that this is driving them to quit). It has frustrated them to the point they don't want to give Daybreak any money because of how stupid this whole process is. And if our guild has lost some people over it I guarantee other's have as well. How many people is it ok to lose before yall just bite the bullet and just fix the mess.

I just cannot fathom how DBG deems it is ok to just let subscription money just walk away because of something so trivial and dumb as a ground spawn. Simply amazing and mind boggling to me.

Can't be caught any more red handed than that. And yeah I agree 100% it's disgusting. Why even play the game? Are they making money off warping around like that? Are fools actually handing these cheaters krono's for these (if they aren't no drop) ?

Did DBG crunch numbers and decide they make more money off cheaters and the fools who give them krono's ? Human greed sickens me.

I don't get why you guys are acting like it's IMPOSSIBLE to get VP key'd unless you're using autoclickers. There are 4 guilds that raid VP regularly now. 3 of those 4 obtained all their key pieces legitimately... an IRL friend of mine got a piece and his guild has almost 20 key'd members now. It's doable, you just have to be persistent with it. Sure it isn't being handed to you (unless you want to pay krono for it), but let's not pretend like its IMPOSSIBLE to get the ground spawns or other key pieces.

If you don't have it, you're just lazy. Blaming auto clickers or whatever else is just offloading responsibility for your own lack of effort and initiative. Cheaters suck, sure, but they aren't the ones stopping anyone from getting key'd up to be honest. OR, take your whole guild to Swamp and spawn a pick. Many guilds are doing this and it's 100% effective.

LOL no they didn't - all four are known cheaters.

Rich coming from a known griefer...

Only until they change the spawn rate of the sonh piece, and then there will be a pile of bodies somewhere else.

You are nuts if you think there is even a single guild on any server that doesn't have at least one guy using an autofire.

How am I a known griefer lol?

That and they've already been adjusted for the TLPs already lol. They should undo it and see how much they complain.

7 Guilds killed PD already on Agnarr. I think its fair to say its working. Its hard, and a pita, and lots of people did it.

It is not working in my opinion. My guild downed Phara Dar this weekend with 22 people. That's less than half of our regular raid turnout, and those who have the key are power-poopsock-ers (bless their hearts) and they had to KS more than their fair share of key pieces.

I don't think it is "working" when most of the raid force has to sit on the sidelines on raid night. I don't think it is "working" when the lucky few who could get in were ONLY able to do so because they resorted to nastiness or bought their key pieces for multiple krono each.

But I'm not everybody. If this is your cup of tea, cool!

I would just like to understand WHY .
A single rational argument WHY we have to endure this absurd situation which is unanimously hated by the players and WHY there are no plans to change it .

Our quild has also lost some 2 dozens of raiders over that insanity . Is it too much to want to just understand why it must be so ?

Guess you didn't care for Sleepers Tomb then?

DB Devs gms guides whatever they called or lack there are are crap. screw them lol.
its not gonna change. they make $$ off of it. and its probably their own toons farming and selling

Anyone who gets their key before Xanathol is a known griefer, and their guild is obviously full of cheaters!

It is absolutely absurd that DBG refuses to change the drops/spawns for the VP key. As it stands right now it is impossible for a solo, non-poopsocker, non-botter to complete this quest without extreme luck or forking over Krono to the botters for an . Have any of the devs actually gone into Swamp of No Hope on Agnarr to see the pile of bodies trying to pick up the ground spawn? This quest as it exists is as far from fun as a game can possibly be. This server is supposed to be about nostalgia and revisiting old content. Instances were added so that people could do so without having to compete with the rest of the server. However, somehow it was decided that it was okay to have thousands of max level people competing in non-instanced zones for extremely slow respawns just to be able to zone into a single zone.

DBG, please do something about this now or you will continue to lose players. If nothing is done there will also be a repeat in a few months for VT shards.

I really dont think you guys understand how much harm this is doing:

First there's the obvious frustration of the long insane waits for a ground spawn / rare mob that HUNDREDS of people need.

Then there's the fact that its directly encouraging rampant cheating.

Then there's the fact that the cheaters are auto-getting the pieces and selling them for multiple kronos.

Then there's the fact that 2/3rds of every guild is not getting their key done and so cannot join the raid on VP nights.

Then there's the fact that the lack of appreciation by the devs for this issue is discouraging players.

Then there's the fact than since so much of the most active player base is sitting in swamp of no hope and these other zones waiting for ground spawns that there are MUCH fewer real groups to join so people are sitting LFG for hours and then camping in disgust.

You are losing players over this. You are doing the same thing that sent your player base to WoW all those years ago. When will you ever learn.

TLP's are the functional equivalent of throwing the top 1-2 guilds of 10 different servers together and saying 'Here, figure it out', then being surprised when every bottleneck created 17 years ago to make sure 1 guild couldnt complete all the content in a month causes massive problems that players use any number of illegal/unethical methods to solve.

We doubled the number of thing_X that enter the world! Thats great, theres now 15-16 times the number of people camping those, when you add in those with no interest in the item, just the $ they can/think they can get from autoclicking it faster.

I just started my VP key... this should be fun. I agree that this should be changed and acknowledge that DBG has no intention to due so.