vet aa Changes

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by taliefer, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Hateseeker Augur

    I enjoyed OMMs, so I'd take it. Though on Selo, at least, it'd have minimal effect, many people would just do them for gear. I'm already max AA on two characters, I would have little need to do them for exp except maybe on alts.
  2. Machen Augur


    I did too, the first 50 or so times through each. After that, not so much. I'd guess when all was said and done, I did each one of them a couple hundred times before they nerfed the xp. The xp was too good to pass up on, especially since I had just started playing live again and needed to catch up on aaxp... But I absolutely despised doing them by the end.
  3. Krezzy Augur

    On Coirnav, at this very moment, I guarantee that most active players under the XP ceiling who have this ability plan their play around this 30 minute AAxp burn. It is enormously important to this server's low but persistent player base.
  4. taliefer Augur

    First, as someone who plays on coirnav still, thank you for holding off on these changes.

    That said, i dont understand the point of moving vet AA rewards around at all. the TLPs are not, and as far as i know, not meant to be an exact recreation of the everquest timeline. artificially blocking vet aa that my account is entitled to feels disrespectful.

    Id like to know why this is even an issue at all that the devs feel need addressed. GoD has been when vet rewards are made available, and its something to look forward to. i cant see the purpose of changing this. and i really dislike artificially blocking the rewards i should have access too because of some nebulous adherence to a timeline that the devs have shown no rhyme or reason on when they choose to stick to.
    Wyre Wintermute, Ginix and That0neguy like this.
  5. Wyre Wintermute Augur

    I agree. I earned those vet rewards by having a fully paid account for every year applicable AND I have to have a paid account (krono or sub) to use them on a TLP. In addition to that, there are a limited number of /veteran claims available. Not once, in the history of EQ, have they offered to "refund" them from deleted characters. I doubt DBG would do it either.

    They messed with the game with MoTM and absolutely no clue as to when MoTM should really be removed... just some arbitrary concept that was pulled out of the garbage can and tossed onto the meeting desk. You can solo Kunark dragons in PoP gear. You could duo/3-man Velious bosses in PoP gear. You could single group half (or more) of the Luclin bosses in PoP/GoD gear, duo all with OoW gear.. yet... MoTM sicks around for how long? It stopped what it was intended to stop.. Mage/Pet armies... those people simply made OTHER CLASSES and did the same thing. MoTM was/is a complete failure.

    I find it awkwardly funny, that DBG added extended target, removed the potion belt, LEFT MAPS AND FIND in.... but want to take away an EARNED bonus from PAYING players who have stuck around with EQ for upwards of two decades.

    How about dredging up those records and ask people who've stuck around PAYING TO PLAY YOUR GAME for 10, 15, 20 years how they may feel and what keeps them PAYING TO PLAY YOUR GAME before making stupid decisions.
    Aneuren likes this.
  6. That0neguy Augur

    Just because you earned them doesn't make them any less broken and should be removed for balance. The fact that a DPS has no chance to ever compete on the meters if they don't have 7th is just wrong.

    IMHO they should remove the broken ones from everyone and then figure out different rewards that are not so game breaking.
    Bobbybick likes this.
  7. Meredyth Elder

    News Flash: knowing the strategies and executing them is what this game is about. When you are even somewhat geared, if you know and execute the correct tactics and coordinate your group of 30 to 60 players actions, you win. It really doesn’t matter if those strategies include he use of Intensity of the Resolute and Armor of Experience occasionally. The tank running armor actually has to have aggro and people have to not pull it off them, these abilities are only useable once per raid night. It’s just another tool in the tool box. You should be happy your team mates have an ability that helps you win. Life is not about topping parses -it’s nice but it is not a measure of your self worth as a human being.

    Taking away toys and tools earned by 14 + years of loyalty is a bad idea and strikes at the most loyal core of the player base. NO veteran rewards changes should be made at all, the entire idea should be dropped as non-viable and a bad business decision.

    Please do the right thing DBG and completely reverse all changes to veteran rewards on TLPs. This is a game, it’s supposed to be fun.
    Wyre Wintermute likes this.
  8. Tymeless Augur


    better yet lets add them from day one on TLPs as they are an earned reward.
  9. SunDrake Augur

    Help me understand why you feel this way? The accounts that have those abilities earned them. If an account doesn't have them, its because they haven't been earned. I don't think any late TLP guilds are in a position to deny membership to people with newer accounts because they don't have a once per day reuse ability. The ability isn't game changing. Mobs would die if nobody had them, if some folks had them, or if everyone had them. I just don't understand the logic of asking those whose accounts are Vet enabled to suffer because someone else doesn't have them. Vet rewards are intended to offer an advantage. Individual parse numbers aren't whats important. Raid results are, and those would remain the same regardless - without pissing off the account holders who have been most loyal to the game.
    Wyre Wintermute and Tymeless like this.
  10. taliefer Augur


    some of the abilities are the same level of OP/advantage no matter when they are made available. its the abilities themselves. its a completely invalid reason for them to change how they currently work on TLP.

    whether i get 7th in gates, or 7th in don, its the same level of advantage. making me wait longer to get does nothing to adresss taht. and indeed only really feels like a punishment to long term players.

    i dont think the abilities like 7th or armor are the reason for this change, but IF they are...change the abilities and let me keep my vet aa on the accounts that ive earned them on by being a long term, loyal, paying customer.
    Wyre Wintermute and Tymeless like this.
  11. Bobbybick Augur

    Because everquest (and most RPGs in general) is a game based around improving your character through gear and experience progression. Intensity of the Resolute is an ability that improves your character based on how long you have been giving EQ money. It is STRONGER than many classes best combat disciplines / class based AA burns for many expansions and for the majority of them, stacks.

    For a lot of people knowing that you just straight up CANNOT compete on a level playing field because you don't happen to have the magic I-WIN DPS parse button is a major turnoff from trying to participate. To say Intensity and Armor of Experience aren't game changing is just naive. I've straight up seen and participated in DPS races where one side just wins because they had more DPS characters that had Intensity to burn. On something like Nightshade in Prophecy of Ro on Phinigel this meant 3 guilds had to sit in Relic for DAYS waiting on him to respawn because they lost a DPS race by a few thousand damage.

    That's bad game design.
    yerm likes this.
  12. Meredyth Elder

    I forgot we were living in a world where everyone is entitled to be #1 simultaneously. We should all top the parse it’s only fair.

    How is this any different than any other thing in the game that you have to put in effort to get? Somebody that wasn’t raiding last expansion won’t parse as well as someone who was - I guess they should just quit since their virtual DPS number isn’t as high as someone else’s. The fact is that when you put time into this game you get rewards that make you more powerful than people who don’t put in as much time. This may be an extreme example of that, but anybody can earn these veteran AAs - they just have to put in the same amount of time. Think of it like BiC or something that takes months to do, but instead this quest takes years.

    As for having to sit in relic for three days due to losing a DPS race, please consider the fact that there is only ever one winner of a DPS race. Even without Intensity, multiple guilds would have lost and been sitting there. Maybe you should have done what Ragefire did, where a mega boxer insisted that the server work together and we all did, with every guild sending a person to get flagged in Sverag and Relic on day one so nobody was blocked. Honestly, not having an instance for Relic would be DBG’s choice and has a lot more to do with what happened to you than the existence of Intensity.
  13. SunDrake Augur

    Ehhhh.. I dunno, man. I've always appreciated and respected your input over the years, but that is a pretty thin argument to me. Maximizing DPS for a DPS race? Where Vet AAs are in use? That applies to like, one expansion. The shittiest expansion that most people AFK through. So no, that is in no way 'game changing' as I see it. As Meredyth pointed out, there were still gonna be an equal number of losers regardless of Vet AAs. There really is no issue here with just saying, if you got em, you got em, if you don't, you don't. It truly does not matter unless you are some kind of completionist who just somehow happened to discover EQ after 2012, heh. [Yeah, I know some people don't have their OG accounts.. but the good news is, that really doesn't even matter.]
  14. Bowdeen Journeyman


    There's a magical thing called Glyph of Destruction which is available at the same time as Intensity. While not quite as amazing, it still helps even it out. That difference is what those accounts have earned over the years. I have 7th on my warrior and nothing on my monk. I frequently lose DPS races because of it, but am I complaining? No. The monk was created specifically for Ragefire, so the account isn't nearly old enough to earn it. I don't expect him to be able to get a FREE, one time per raid use, ability to increase his DPS. I do know that I have an option to purchase the Glyph if I wish to, and if I have the AAs do to so. It's simply called earning your dues.


    To be fair, we also had rotations in place towards the end of Velious and onward.. but, I certainly agree with you. The accounts that have put in the time deserve them. Just because one of my accounts is 19 years old and another is 1, I don't feel entitled to having the same abilities on that account, nor would I want that on my guild members who do have it. It helps the RAID, the GUILD.. you know, the important stuff? Just because your epeens shrink on a single fight on a raid doesn't mean we need to restrict this for those that have earned it over the years.


    And as I mentioned on the thread that got nuked, Armor is a null factor. If you're honestly relying on that for wins in any situation, then you need to get your tanks geared or rethink your strategy. EVERYTHING In-era is doable without ANY of the veteran AAs. To think otherwise is simply idiotic. The content where it's relevant is reaching what.. 15 years old? Everyone knows the strategy. Everyone knows how to gear up before hand. Everyone knows what is required to kill it. Removing these quality of life changes does NOTHING to alter the actual gameplay, other than letting somebody flex their epeen.

    Keep **** the way it is. Don't give your loyal members another reason to walk away from the game, although we likely won't anyway.
    Wyre Wintermute likes this.
  15. That0neguy Augur

    Because you literally don't put effort towards it. No one is being entitled here. I actually have 14yrs on all of my accounts. If you can't remove your emotion and realize how broken these vet rewards really are and how bad they are for the game then there's no point in even discussing it.
  16. taliefer Augur


    except nothing these changes do address the actual abilities that could be considered broken. 7th is no more broken in gates than it is in dragons than it is in seeds.

    armor is actually the more useful of the two, and again, its just as broken in any expansion they tie it to as it is in gates.

    change these abilities if thats the issue, but i really dont think thats what the devs were actually trying to address
    Wyre Wintermute likes this.
  17. Dahaman Augur


    Posterity Note: Vet Rewards are NOT based on how long you have been giving EQ money. They are based entirely on when the account was created and how long ago you started playing the game. Breaks away from the game aren't even penalized any more.
  18. CatsPaws Augur

    Yep its available to every account - free - silver - gold. If one chooses to play on servers that require you to pay - then vet rewards are not part of what your paying for.
  19. Zanarnar Augur

    If EQ was a competitive PVP game... there might be some logic to this.

    Its not.. its PVE. These abilities are on long cooldowns. You can use them (at most) once a day. How many of you only hit one raid target a day? Show of hands? really... noone.

    Ya exactly. YES they are powerful, yes they can (if everyone in the raid pops them) make ONE encounter easier. (lets be fair, if your competent most of them are already easy. This is all content long ago figured out. There are no surprises.) Then again, things like the passive melee dmg boost and increased spell damage over classic make EVERY encounter easier.

    So where is the outrage over those things? Just look at conflag on P99 vs LIVE. There is just so much that has changed and tipped the balance of power in favor of players. These vet rewards are strong and out of era, but so is a lot of other stuff.

    I guess... for me there are just so many other, pressing, issues that the dev's could be spending their time on. I can't find a good MEME of it; but go find the original Tripping the Rift short, the first exchange between Chode and Gus reminds of exactly this. Chode:"You mean with all the crap broken on this ship, you start with the *&$((&@ ice maker? (grabs baseball bat and beats Gus with it) "Now, fix the @##$## hyperdrive!"
    That0neguy likes this.
  20. Aneuren Augur

    I could very much say the same to you in your opposition to retaining them.

    People who have given this game the immense support over the lengthy period required to get those veteran rewards deserve them. From your comments, one would be misled into thinking that players can use these abilities all night, every encounter, like a passive magical iWin button available every minute of every day. It's simply not true.


    These rewards have been around for a long time, who are you to call for their removal?

    Or are you just trying to troll that paladin from live who has been arguing (apparently rightly so) that TLP players are indeed the cause of major changes that consistently hurts them?
    Wyre Wintermute likes this.

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