Very Ticked off

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by quakedragon, Sep 18, 2021.

  1. quakedragon Augur

    93s and 94s, no one any other level. Person tanking was 94 level.

    Was you 93-94? How long ago.

    Again people avoiding one of my questions, how much max damage is a lvl 94 or 93 suppose to handle? Maybe this is a developer question. Since they scale stuff and I assume they have a chart "This lvl is suppose to handle this max damage", since mobs have a max damage and don't just do 1000000 dmg since you have no AC. So max damage is relevant to scaling.

    Yes I believe the person mentioning *3 *4 is difficult, because thinking about, if your 94 your fighting mobs next expansion or 2 to 3 expansions past you.

    Which isn't a good thing if they relying on these scaled missions as the primary source of getting returners caught up.

    So again, how much max damage should a lvl 93 or 94 suppose to handle in T1 T2?
  2. Lyyr Journeyman

    I 3 boxed this as well with a SK, Necro, Bard. All 3 were in the lvl 91-94 range, SK had t2 VoA gear at best in some slots. Some of the HA's a little further in had brutal ae's making the missions impossible, but Into the Temple B was absolutely doable (still tough though). I've actually duo'd this mission in the 90's with Necro and Bard, using my pet, focused with the em13 consumable, to tank.

    Keep trying it's definitely worth pushing through to get TBM gear for this level range.
  3. OlavSkullcrusher Augur

    I've never done Into the Temple B in that level range. Almost always as soon as my alts could, at 75 or shortly after. It was always tough but doable with whatever 3 box crew I had.

    But I want to comment on the frustration that the OP has been expressing. I have experienced it as well. There is just so much with EQ that has been done in such haphazard ways that it is just a mess. And there are things that devs aren't going about fixing in a systematic way or a problem is basically just being ignored. And there has been a major lack of communication about many of these issues.

    If I listed my own frustrations it would turn into a TL;DR post very quickly. I have seen some people here replying to someone's frustrations with something along the lines of "just be happy we still have a game after 22 years". [EDIT: In other threads, not this one.] That is dismissive of a person's perspective. I maintain paid accounts, and buy expansions. I expect a certain amount of value for that money. In the last 22 years, I've probably spent 90% of my gaming time playing EQ and EQ2. I've been as addicted anyone, but that is just it. MMO's benefit from the sunk cost fallacy and nostalgia. But at some point, if the game isn't good enough on its own terms, it isn't going to be worth it.
  4. Randomized Augur

    That’s your issue, it’s all based off of gear. That mob can dish out more than 13k damage in a single hit. Want proof: go in naked and sit down and watch how much he smacks you for. The damage you take is mitigated by that gear and abilities and AAs and discs. So your questions are loaded and you know that.

    A warrior will take less damage than a mage
    My monk will take less damage than a Beastlords more than a Knight.

    And for the record, Monks make wonderful solo/molo toons due to their ability to actually take a hit. They may not be able to take on Named mobs (which I avoid in HAs), but outside of that they’re great. And I’ve run that task more than once. Multiple 3 box teams, multiple solo characters in groups, and now molo with my Monk (decent set of 115 buffs). So I knew what to expect. Didn’t have any issues. Only issue I’ve ever had was my first time through with an SK/Chanter/Mage box group when I was still new to boxing and not fast enough on swapping between toons.

    Are you boxing or have an actual group. What is your tank? What’s his HP/AC? Does he have AC augs in every slot? Are they rotating through discs and AAs properly or just face tanking hoping the healer can keep up? Who/what is the healer? Is it a merc? Does the group have the appropriate spells blocked to make things smoother with faster and more consistent incoming heals?

    There’s a lot of things to take into consideration. Just because you’re unable to do it doesn’t mean it’s broken or wrong. Like everyone else has said, they haven’t issues with it, even while admitting that it’s common knowledge that it’s over tuned a bit. And I will admit that the TBM HAs are considerably harder than the Gribbles missions at the same level
    Celephane likes this.
  5. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    The new player experience is [the word "s h i t t y" is what I typed here, but it is being censored without indication, which is sort of plagerism, hence this parenthetical) in EQ. :D Being in your mid-90s and experiencing this situation for the first time indicates that you are probably relatively new to the game, but this is pretty par for the course.

    It is an inane and seemingly rhetorical question. You (and everybody else) can handle as much damage as your character's HPs, avoidance, mitigation allows them to handle. Your level is only part of the answer to your question though, since your AAs and gear just as important.

    If you really want to know the specific number, just look at the max hits coming out from the mobs. That is how much you are expected to be able to defend against.

    Obviously the Devs make the design decisions, but it is clear that their intention is that you should be able to take on the enemies in expansion (or quest) #22 using the gear you can get in expansion (or quest) #21. And that is pretty much true, since most players make it through the grind eventually.

    Are you parsing your logs? If so, you will be able find out why your team was not up to the challenge on that particular day. If you and your team (especially your tank) aren't sufficiently geared, then you shouldn't be surprised to see mobs 1-rounding you. Your level is never enough to determine your power or the difficulty of any content: your gear and AAs - and your skill - will be just as important.

    And finally, of course the mission is probably not scaling right! You should go into most EQ situations with the mentality that, "Probably most things are broke." But I'll wager you will level up to 105 (and beat the mission at it's original "difficulty") before the devs do anything to change the scaling for new players.

    Even if it takes you several years to get those next 20 levels ;)
    Celephane, Chaffe and Nennius like this.
  6. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    TBM HA tuning is so bad, there’s main mission mobs that basically have death touches for players in BIS gear. Named mobs are nearly impossible without have your group composition and cool downs optimized. If, your tank has defensive discs down it’s best just to skip it.
    Also, I had to burn some glyphs to just complete some of them.

    The Crypt of Decay basement is a straight murder zone. It would make great end game content, but not leveling content.

    There’s nothing comparable in current content to doing a HA rare mob. ToV and CoV have nothing on TBM HAs.
  7. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    I seem to recall the rare mobs didn't scale at all, which would explain their difficulty.

    But they aren't required for completing the missions, so...
  8. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Yeah, but they’re loot targets. Also, there’s main mobs that are every bit as challenging as the rares. Like, I said there’s one that just drops out death touches because the damage is so high.

    Crypt of Decay basement is insane.

    They’re doable, but you already need to be geared and understand your class abilities. It is well outside the expectation for leveling content. If, they don’t want to fix it, then it should be dropped from the Clayton Teek HA list.

    They’re leveling experience and design is so horribly neglected. Levels and AAs come easy enough and straightforward, but equipment is so sparse, which runs counter to the ease of leveling.
  9. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    Agreed :D
    Skrab likes this.
  10. quakedragon Augur

    I don't need to be educated on a silk class taking more damage than a tank. Returners know this, they don't need to be told this.

    I'm asking about max damage, not how to lower there damage to me.

    A lvl 50 will do a certain max damage a lvl 100 mob will do a certain max damage.
    Its a good way to tell if its scaled properly or not.

    So I'm asking about
    1. max damage lvl 94 mobs usually do (that mob was lvl 98, so whats the max damage for lvl 98 average mobs)
    2. what is max damage a lvl 94 should handle? (Is a lvl 94 group expected to kill lvl 101 nameds)

    These mobs were doing 13456 max damage (possible QUAD 53824, PENT 67280, yes they did 5 attacks in a round) it seems, is that max damage the usual mobs a 94 should be able to handle or is this too much?

    I'm not asking how to lower there damage output, as in getting gear/aa and what not and being a tank to tank, no brainer stuff. I'm trying to determine was this HA overscaled for me or not.
  11. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    It clearly was ;)

    I don't know of anybody that maintains the sort of information you are looking for (the devs have it, but there's plenty of reason to doubt whether they look at it :D). That's probably because if you want the numbers, you can go and take some hits and check your log and see them for yourself. Everybody sees these numbers all day long in-game, so why are you asking other people?

    If you want to fuel a productive conversation, record some numbers and report back to us with them.

    PS: this also might be the only way to get the devs to address anything (with real numbers).
    Coagagin and Stymie like this.
  12. Elskidor Augur

    Me and some friends recently did this while leveling new characters and taking a break from Mischief. I was the tank and we were evenly leveled but it was pretty rough as most were yellow and even some red cons. I died a few times and wondered if I needed better gear before even trying it, but in the end we pulled through. The TBM gear that opened afterwards was worth it but without a full group I don't think it would've been in the cards.

    I recalled it being rough a few years back but more difficult than that is the insanity scaled boss missions of Anashti Sul, Enslaver of Souls and Damsel of Decay. The scaling is whacked in TBM. I doubt they'll ever change it so you may wanna tweak gear or come back at a later level.
    Yinla likes this.
  13. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    HA scaling was, and remains, the biggest blunder in the history of EverQuest.

    After four years of virtually zero real attempts at a fix, I am deeming this blunder un-fixable.
  14. aozs Elder

    That max damage seems high but not unreasonably so. It sounds like you're able to kill the mobs so I don't fully understand the complaints.

    Max damage in a round (or hit) isn't really a good indicator of how the group game is balanced, though, so you shouldn't overly focus on it. For example Zlandicar in the 115 CoV group mission max hits around 125k per hit, you might think "wtf my 450k hp tank will get 1 rounded" but in reality my group geared tanks had no problem standing up to him for 4+ minutes for an ach (while also tanking adds that spawn). Meaning - despite the seemingly ridiculous max hit, it realistically isn't an issue.

    FWIW I've done TBM on several different box crews at various levels and yes those "servant of sul" golem mobs hit unusually hard, but they're still doable. I would agree it's harder than it should be for catchup content but it's not impossible.
    Yinla and Randomized like this.
  15. Tappin Augur

    TBM HAs are probably using RoS mob templates so their abilities proc harder than intended and overall damage is higher then intended.
  16. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Yeah, the scaling is really bad. For example, if the OP added a level 89 or 90 to the group they would be nearly useless grouped with a level 94. The mobs that populate mission would be 97-99.

    Who would think it’s a good design to do scale the mobs based off +3 to +5 levels of the highest character in mission? They know spells and abilities have a level cap on them, right? Enchanters are so useless in TBM HAs.
  17. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    It was relatively fun and challenging when it was new, and very much box-able and moloable at the time. And that's pretty much the same lvl difficulty scale as it was for characters when it was released.
  18. Randomized Augur

    Loaded questions again. No one has the exact numbers except for the Devs.

    1) which level 94 mobs? HoT namer mobs (think there’s a couple that hit 94), VoA T1-T4 94 mobs, RoF level 94 mobs? Mobs in content that scales? (which you should never base that off of. I’ve never known a game that scales content to get this right). And each expansion, the mobs get harder, even though it’s the same level mob. Those 98s you’re taking on, were originally 105s? 100s? I forget what TBM max level was.

    2) a 94 is expected to handle a level 94, with in era gear in era content. That’s why we have a con system in place. You’re supposed to struggle with yellows and reds are meant to be avoided. But you always have those exceptional players that go above and beyond what the devs had designed. ShadowKnights soloing Namers that groups are wiping to, Mages pulling entire zones and Beaming them down. So things like that mean little to those players.

    The exception to 2 is that you’re technically supposed to be able to handle one tier up from your current content. ToV t2 geared player is meant to tackle CoV t1. Just because it’s all 115 mobs and you’re 115, if you’re in ToV snowbound going into CoV content, you’re going to struggle a bit more than if you’re equipped with the tier 2 gear.

    And is the mission over tuned for you? Apparently. Over tuned in general? Yeah a little bit. Enough so to make a big deal and throw a tantrum like you did? No. You struggling does not mean that things are broken (although many have already admitted that the TBM missions are a bit over tuned)
  19. demi Augur

    if your tank is lvl 94 then there is something wrong with your tank .. a lvl 94 tank should be able to tank those mobs (albeit it might be tough) but its doable .. if your tank is not then its a tank issue and not a mob issue ..

    yes those HA's are more difficult , but a properly gear'd/Aug'd and AA'd tank should be ok .. if you know your toons disc's and abilities .. (which it appears you dont) ..

    you say were side stepping your questions , but you have not given us anything about your group .. you finally stated what lvl the group was . but no info on the remaining group members how many mercs your using are they T5 journeyman or F2P apprentice .. do you have AC augs in all your type 7 slots ..what gear are you wearing .if your only wearing HoT T1 or VoA T1 then no your gonna get run over bye the TBM mobs .

    like someone mentioned up there if you want to know the kind of dmg a tank can handle at that lvl. its Gear + augs + AA's = live or die .. you should have a base line if the mob quad'd you for 50k hps and you have 100k hps then im guessing you dont have enough AC which is an Aug thing .. if your All access then your AA's should be ok from autogrant .. make sure your hitting your discs ..
    and I cant stress this enough you def need a really good puller and CC ..
    Coagagin likes this.
  20. Dragnath Elder

    Enchanters are fine in TBM, I main one and leveled while doing all of the progression. Really buggy expansion but I still love it.

    OP, if you want to know if it is overturned go to a zone with level 95-97 mobs and see how it goes (I'm thinking shards landing but I leveled in TBM so I'm not sure).

    Also Overseer if your friend, if you are stuck it will help get levels to get over the hump.
    Yinla likes this.