Upgrades to enchanters for next expansion

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Fian, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. Verily Tjark Augur

    I'm also a fan of a spell shield consolidation. It's just silly to load 3 spell slots to get all spell shields buffed.

    Oh I'm supposed to be doing a top 5, sorry.
    1. Consolidate buff spell lines
    2. Group NET
    3. Increase charm pet damage output in current content
    4. Duration timers on aura's
    5. Decide what to do with the not so often used spell lines. Why so many useless spells? Maybe it's just play style, but there's so many mezzes, nukes and rune spells that I never use.
    Kimbella, Lannin and RPoo like this.
  2. Dovhesi Master


    I agree that it is rather odd for enchanters to have so many basically redundant mez spells. For example, who in their right mind would use deceive over chaotic deception, other than just as a stepping stone filler from lvl 111 to 113? Seems a bit odd to develop a spell that is used for only 2 levels before it never gets a second look.

    To me, it would seem more practical to discard deceive and maybe just change chaotic deception to lvl 112 to compensate. Sure, you might could argue that deceive has the added bonus of the 35% memblur chance... but is that really a bonus? I for one hate it when mobs get passively mem blurred when I mez them because then it makes it more difficult to keep tabs on them. How annoying is it when you have like 7 or 8, or even 10+ adds, and some of them got blurred off and others didn't? Really. Freaking. Annoying. Imo, less memblur chance on mezzing = better. Plus, I would never trade an increased chance to twincast for an increased chance to memblur. Would hope other enchanters wouldn't either.

    I don't completely understand the thought processes behind the stare line of spells either. Our stare is always a max level spell of each xpac as if implying that they are one of our best mez spells, when I would go as far to argue that they are basically useless over the others because of their NPC cap. Between beam of slumber, perilous and wave, there is not one instance that I would ever consider memming or casting stare. I mean... I guess (maybe?) if you are guaranteed to never get more than 6 adds. Even then I still wouldn't bother.

    I have also never really been a fan of the echo or issuance lines of spells, if we are going to put it all out there. Does anyone ever use placating issuance or deviser's echo? Not I, not once, ever. Just my 2c.
  3. RPoo Augur

    Point 1. Well said. Pet peeve when I see decieve over deception.
    Point 2. Enchanter club. Don't wave our bone in front of the devs, they might take it away =(
    Point 3. Echo/Issuance when I'm pulling I can leave my aura with the group so they will have it while gone and not have to wait on the refresh when returning.
  4. Dovhesi Master

    I honestly don't regard our mez spells as "our bone." Enchanter mez spells are working exactly as they were intended to, with the obvious benefit of using certain mez spells over others. In rare instances, our stare line of spells can possibly be useful. However, they would be much more useful, and more reflective of their "end game" material status as a max lvl mez spell, if the devs considered either removing its max target cap or at the very least increasing its max to affect more targets.

    Think about it, even our beam of slumber AA mezzes up to 8 creatures. I would like to see deceiving stare (and the corresponding lower lvl stares) mez up to at least 8 creatures as well, so that is has greater utility and is more reflective of being our "strongest" mez line.

    I think the real question is why are you pulling, and not Kizfurix? <insert Kizant's shaking head emoji here> :rolleyes:
  5. enclee Augur

    Counterpoint, why waste a spell slot for a single target mez, except for Mearatas hall group.
  6. Dovhesi Master

    For the twincast effect :)
  7. enclee Augur

    I get that you’d want a twincast effect, but in group content there’s no point. Tanks aren’t overwhelmed by one extra mob anymore, there has to be 4+ to even start worrying them. If, you’re using it for a bane outside Mearatas halls you’re better off going with AE mezzes or flash.

    Edit: Now that I’m thinking more about it, if I had to solo nameds it’d be useful. I don’t think it needs to be removed, but I just don’t have a need for a single target mez 99% of the time.
  8. Szilent Augur

    Nah, you're not getting it. You cast it for the twincast effect. You don't "oh get a twincast as long as you're mezzing may as well". Casting Chaotic is better than casting Mindslash, nearly all the time, for the twincast effect. It's cheaper, and it deals more damage, and you get 50% more shots at Gracious Gifts of Mana/Haze. If you use it to double up an Appropriation, double mana back. Pets all have /resume on now, you don't even lose that dps like you used to.
    Yendar and enclee like this.
  9. RPoo Augur

    When you're use to it capping at 5, infinity seems unintentional.
  10. enclee Augur

    Interesting, glad to hear a different perspective. I tried it before, when I came back and I just wasn’t finding having any single target mezzes loaded worthwhile. I suppose that’s the downside of boxing so much, you lose some perspective and optimization of a single class.
  11. Genusii Journeyman

    Thank you to all of you. This thread is becoming constructive and not so attacking. Enclee, thanks again!

    My main concern:

    Please do not ask for anything you, individually, do not use to be taken away. The best part, from my experience, when playing the enchanter is ability to adapt. One individual wanting a spell line removed is shortsighted. I know I don't agree with everyone, but I don't want something removed because I don't use it.

    NET:

    I must admit, I don't care about NET. The spell does not improve an enchanter. However, I do understand how this adjustment would make a raid happy. Fisrt concern: when charming a pet using edict of command, it will not receive the group haste spell. If NET were to be granted group status, I hope the individual one still remains. Second concern: it better be mgb-able.

    Mez Spells:

    Do not remove anything. Do not mess with anything. They are fine. I use them all. I use Deceiving Stare more often then the others for my own reasons. Both Neutralizing spells have a niche. Deceive vs Chaotic Deception: they have different duration and effect. Again, variety and adaptability.

    Runes:

    Again, no real feelings on this one.

    Charm -

    I am under the impression that not many people use this. If you box, I don't blame you. Once our most powerful form of dps now under performs our summoned sword and stein. A charmed pet should be based lined at 30% dps of the npc. So, in ToFS, a scholar hitting for 400k, should yield a pet at 120k dps. If you don't know, right now, this scholar will dps for under 10k buffed and with gear. Please, even if you don't use this, start demanding a fix.

    My new upgrade

    -Pet class -

    Put ENC between BST and MAG on that pet-earring. Charm should out dps any class's summoned pet so I really don't want it. However, it would be an upgrade to the class. Basically, this wish is based on the concept that charm is not going to be adjusted to proper levels.
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  12. Runzen Lorekeeper

    Greater mass enchant clay … for the love of all that is xegony please !
    Zaray, Verily Tjark and RPoo like this.
  13. Imminent Journeyman

    I think our class is in decent shape. I personally would like a MGB'able version of NET and duration timers on Aura's would be dandy.
    Verily Tjark and RPoo like this.
  14. Ninelder Augur

    Thank you!

    I thought I was going crazy reading some of these guys describe how they use their mezzes and why they thought some were crap. TBH the mez I like the least is wave, which is what I have seen most box enchanters use. I will still load it when it applies but for those of you who haven't played around with your different mezzes, the stare line will mez five targets(instead of four) and most importantly not mez you! That(IMO) makes it a million times better than wave. Nothing will wipe your group faster than having your CC mez itself.

    For those of you that cannot appreciate the difference between deceive and deception, you aren't pulling enough mobs at a time. A good enchanter fills up that XTW! This also applies to the guy who said "why load a single target mez?" If you AE mez a group of mobs that's larger than your target limit, then AE mez them again, you will just remez the same mobs. EQ has limited math function, AE spells usually target mobs based first on proximity to target,then to comparative hps, then on name and/or spawn number. You can actually see the math in action testing a druid quad or quint kiting, other classes got easier(and sloppier) AEs.

    I would of thought most people posting here would know how our mezzes work and why we have so many different ones. I see I was mistaken. Playing a druid as well, I know all about useless spells; but I still tested them. I tried to imagine a way they would be useful, before tossing them on the pile of junk spells all caster classes have. You guys haven't actually explored and tested your mezzes yet, you should do that before you comment on them.

    P.S. If you still want to use wave and do happen to mez yourself ask your priest to cast RC to remove it.
    For those using healer mercs, enjoy the wipe.
  15. enclee Augur

    Hi, I'm the guy who said why load a single target mez. Majority of the time I 6-box, so I prefer to use a PBAE mez over a single target. I can react quicker, because it's faster cast time and not requiring a target.

    Deceive versus Deception, I tried incorporating Chaotic line but it was kind of annoying when boxing 3 mages and pet tanking. I'm going to give it another go based off the replies I got from the community, which are great because it gets me back to the drawing board.

    Wave versus Stare, I find Wave to be useful in Mearatas mez bane rotation versus the free target line. I just found there was some difficulty based with targeting and landing based off our tanking location. There's not really a risk to mezzing yourself, if you don't use latest version of Wave. If, I'm in the Hallway then I change up and go to the Chatoic line.

    Honestly, the progression and variety of mez spells available is extremely valuable and lets you build out to your need. I enjoy reading about other enchanter's are applying our toolkit. Generally, we don't tend to have multiple of ourselves in a group and raids don't allow us to showcase our abilities.
    Ninelder likes this.
  16. RPoo Augur

  17. Verily Tjark Augur

    Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "useless", since the technicality crowd will argue it down that no spell is useless. And I get it... technically, they aren't useless, because technically, they work if you use them. And technically, people other than me do use them. (stop sliding your glasses up your nose when you say that. Okay, I get it, and I'm sorry.)

    I used to be in the stare crowd, but the limit on mobs and the stupid ground led me to start using wave. Do I mez myself sometimes? Yep. Has it ever wiped my group? No, but I play with raiders and people who are well geared, pay attention, and know their class. So maybe that's why... Also, none of the enchanters talking here are boxes. They are generally mains so what may work as a boxed enchanter mezbot may not work for mains, technically.

    I'm not advocating to get RID of any spells. I just want them to be USEFUL. Like give me one raid or one mission or something where some of these spells are needed. I'm not asking them to be an option to play style, but I'm asking them to be necessary. I WANT to use them!!!

    Like I remember in Arx raids. I HAD to use Flash to mez spectres on Caelix, because we had to mez them all almost instantly as they spawned. I also HAD to single target rune main tanks on other arx raids, because the tanks would die if we didn't. Maybe Pain and Glory tanks sucked that bad (I certainly don't miss them), but I don't think that was it. Either way, that's the last time I remember HAVING to use those spells, just an example okay don't roast me with a technicality.

    I'll leave you with this...
    When's the last time anyone used mana drain?

    It's a serious question. If you used it, I am genuinely curious as to when and where.
    Kimbella and RPoo like this.
  18. RPoo Augur

    Does Mind Coil count? All the time.
    Tears of ? On myself when I want to raise bind wound or be low health for whatever reason. Occasionally in duels.
    Theft of thought, scryer's trespass? RIP =(
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  19. Verily Tjark Augur

    boy howdy... TECHNICALLY yes, but that's not why we cast it.
    RPoo likes this.
  20. enclee Augur


    The tears line is useful for PVP, but I haven't done that since 2009.
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