Upgrades to enchanters for next expansion

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Fian, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. Lannin Elder

    Timers on are aura's (both) that we have to maintain would be really nice.

    Group NET and reduce the recast time on it , or make it so we can mgb it.

    An AA that lets us mgb spell guards.

    Mass illusion AA that can be only cast on your raid for all those winning pics for websights !

    I love the idea of a duo haste / mindbuff in one combo , but they will never do something like that. Half the pain of playing an enchanter use to be getting these two spells to buff your raid , there never going to ease that pain.

    I two would like to be more of a mana battery class to my caster group , some kinda of group mana dump either AA or spell would be cool. Since my dps has been adjusted to the point of oblivion , give me more adps like abilities to keep me entertained.

    Since Tash was so OP that it cant be instance cast anymore , give us a combo task slow in one debuff.

    Lower the cast times on are DD spells , 3 secs is just silly.

    Let me cast an illusion while im on a mount , im an enchanter after all , what if I want to be a troll on a horse ?

    An AA that lets me trade mana for health. Too many times I die , with full mana and wish that I had another way to heal myself cause my druid is full mana and afk. Or just upgrade our Sanugine Mind Crystal line , 10k hps isn't a lot when your rocking 250 k plus hps.

    Already asked for above , up grade our gather mana AA again , 10k in a 250k + mana pool is a pretty pitful return for 30 mins.

    Reduce the recast time on Mental Contortion. 9 mins is about 3 and a half mins too long.

    Give me the option of turning taunt off for the doppleganger lines of AA , in raids I want there damage , not them taunting. Or a similar type of AA swarm pet I can cast just for damage.

    Reduce the recast timer on Glyph Spray , 18 mins is a stupid long time on a buff.

    Give us a bump in Aura Mastery. If your not going to let me give mana ala a pargon like spell , let me run a third aura so I can keep up mana regen for my group.

    A high mana cost once every 15 min paragon type buff that regen's mana AND endurance , to help speed up raid wipes.

    An enchanter only AA mount , bards get run speed , throw us a movement increaser , Sk's and Pally's get a line of AA mount , why not us ? ( not just a nag to sit on , something with some horse power or insta cast like SK's get ).

    Im tired of being a buff bot , even more so with the addition of NET , give us some relief , I didn't sign up as an enchanter 17 years ago to be a peez despenser.
  2. chronicler Augur

    3 secs cast time for DD spells are what it is in general.

    Illusionn when on mount, will never happen, because illusions are not made to work with that, and would require more then the cost of an expansion.

    Tell your druid to keep awake and not afk,

    Will come some sort, but not sure how much.

    Enchanters have nothing to do with endurance, and why they should not have such.
  3. Verily Tjark Augur

    Holy cow... you must work for the government and have done some budget requests before. Ask for way more than you need and hope to get some of it?

    So much to unpack...

    Mgb spellguards? We have TB and MGB. Pro tip: hit TB before you engage and you get a free mass spell guard cast mid fight.

    Everyone likes to free up spell gems. I don't think they will do any of your ideas for that, but I like freeing up spell gems.

    ONE of the best ways to give mana to your group is to DPS. Our Gift of Mana procs are awesome. Also, you can set a trigger for your 110 GoM proc and cast dissident when it's refreshed and the trigger goes off. It's free mana.

    I think everyone would agree that Gather Mana is going to get another level upgrade with expac, but honestly, I rarely need it these days. We have so many mana preservation tools that I rarely get that low on mana.

    Mental Contortion and Glyph Spray timers are fine. It sounds like maybe your guild is light on enchanters? I can see where this would be more of a concern with only 1 or 2 in a raid.

    Lastly, if you're just a buff bot, either you or your guild is doing something wrong. That's not a slight at you, but just my opinion about the state of our class.
    Skewert and RPoo like this.
  4. Ismel Augur

    Why would they not give us combo buffs, literally every single class aside from us with more then 1 mgb buff have them, I am astounded that we do not.

    If you are the only enc you need to mgb C. H, Skrizik, Milyex, Auspice that is 5x 35sec assuming someone was not afk and ruins your ooc then its even longer, I would love to avoid that.

    if you are not the caster hurting the most for mana you could be doing so much more ( hybrids pls dont comment )
    Gather mana is 190 mana/tic +- a few duration buffs tick odly.
    Wiz rk 2 harvest is 365 mana/tic

    Dont get me wrong having an enc in your group helps mana a lot, but our self regen compared to other casters is not so hot, the massive hit to Mind tempest line really hurt our endurance, it was too good when the limit on returned mana was broken, but as it it now a 10-15% boost in personal regen over the standard % upgrade with level would bring us more in line in my mind. Kinda want to ask for me but harvest do come with a slow casting time got to take that in account.
    Lannin likes this.
  5. Verily Tjark Augur

    I guess I could see them combining the spell dmg and dot dmg runes, but I doubt you would ever see a C and H combo. I have nothing to base that off of other than my gut feeling.

    Maybe I'm confused... I never run oom on raids. Unless I've died and it's just hard to catch up. If I go oom on a raid and I haven't died, then something has gone terribly wrong in the raid. I would love to discuss this in game though to see maybe what were doing different. ;t bristle.verilyx

    Gather mana has a 35k mana dump too? I think that's how much it gives you up front. I looked the other night after this thread but I can't remember.

    The Mind Tempest nerf hurt but honestly if you use your GoM procs you can keep it refreshed on any mob you want to with no issue. A lot of fights, I even use Strangulate in my DD weave as my 3rd nuke with Dissident being the first cast in my DD weave hotkey. And like I said, rarely ever mana issues... my guild will tell you I press a lot of buttons too. Again I would love to discuss in game different strategies. Hit me up.
    RPoo likes this.
  6. Ismel Augur

    Use Twing of pain II tribute for faster dots
    change to a 3x Strangle>Mindslash rotation its better dps but as you guessed its very expensive to keep going, of course keep the other 2 dots running and dissident reinforcement on cool down.

    Gather mana is 37500 mana upfront and 825 for 2 min with raid focus and a 28min recast its right about 190/tic

    I am afraid I will just have to disagree with your gut thou =)

    I play Euro times so you are most likely asleep or at work when I am on, but join serverwide.enchanter I am always there if I am on.
    RPoo likes this.
  7. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    Sorry, but your shoehorn comparison of gather mana and wizard harvest OVER ENTIRE TIME BETWEEN REFRESHES is perhaps one of the strangest things I have seen on the boards. No one else would ever look at these two ability/spells over mana per tic, especially with such a large discrepancy between refresh times.

    No wizard in their right mind would ever spend 15 seconds during a raid (yes, because it's 12 for the spell and 3 for the gem refresh as the spell has a longer lockout than normal) casting the spell during a raid except after a death (and that means playing with one spell gem less because...). We use the gambit line, which at rank 3 returns either 26.5k or 16.4k (most of the time it's going to be 16.4k because of what we are casting), or our aa harvest (19.5k with 5 min refresh). On long fights (or stupid fights when folks trigger mana drain effects), especially when we are throwing away mana in mana burn, we'll need to use some of these … but that's part of the fun of being a raid wizard … figuring out best practices.

    As a wizard raid main, I agree that enchanters need a better way of getting back mana after dying rather than a 27 minute aa harvest (personally, I'd half the refresh time so that it is up for every raid as a start and increase the regen per tic). I would also agree that enchanters need something in-between dissident and gather mana with the mind tempest change that they can weave into their lineup so that if needed, it's there (self-only). But you don't need strange comparisons to make this point. It just hurts you by bringing it up.
    Lannin likes this.
  8. Sancus Augur

    ... What spells are you casting that you aren’t able to consistently consume your gambit counters?
  9. Verily Tjark Augur

    I mean I wouldn't complain if you were right about combo spells. Free up the spell gems!

    I've never joined server wide channels before, but I might. Thanks.
  10. Lannin Elder

    If you are the only enc you need to mgb C. H, Skrizik, Milyex, Auspice that is 5x 35sec assuming someone was not afk and ruins your ooc then its even longer, I would love to avoid that.

    Amen !

    Lastly, if you're just a buff bot, either you or your guild is doing something wrong. That's not a slight at you, but just my opinion about the state of our class.

    Those are the STARTING buffs , now add NET , Dissident , Glyph Spray and Mana Rep. ( the spell buff )

    Mindslash 3 - 4940 mana
    Mindsunder 3 - 4112 mana
    Mindcleave 2 ( sad face ) 3449 mana
    Mindtempst 3 - 10156 mana
    Strangulate 3 10122 mana

    This is my dps spell weave that I keep on CD , now the dots I will hold off recasting them , but the 3 DD spells for the most part are kept on CD.

    Dissident Reinforcement 6 - 12027 mana , I keep this buff on CD any time any member of my caster group isn't full mana. Its also a nice little spell damage boon for you and the casters in your group.

    Mana Repetition 3 - 2498 mana , Single target spell proc. I keep this up on every dps caster in my group.

    Aura , I keep up Twincast , Mana Repetition or Bolstering Aura. The wizards in my group like these aura's swapped out depending which burn there starting with. So mid event I will swap out Twincast and Mana for say Mana and Bolstering.

    Tash and I toss out a slow on every mob , sure the shamans overwrite it , but if my landed first how much damage did I save that tank ?

    I don't know about u , but I feel im doing a lot of buffing , yes I run my spell weave , mezz , charm and bane and kill mobs in Meartas. ( my guild finished 6th ).

    Mental Contortion and Glyph Spray timers are fine. It sounds like maybe your guild is light on enchanters? I can see where this would be more of a concern with only 1 or 2 in a raid

    Seriously ?

    Mental Contortoin Reduces melee damage by 25%, accuracy by 25%, and deals 5000 damage every 6 seconds for 3.0 mins Refresh time , 9 mins. How are you ok with this being a 9 min CD , personally I want to be able to use this 2 times a raid , not once. What a great bridge this is for a tank inbetween discs. I would be happy if it was 4.5 mins personally , I don't see that being OP.

    Glyph Spray -
    A barrier of glyphs protects you against up to 70000 points of direct spell or against 25% of DoT damage up to $4 points of damage every 6 seconds until @4 points of DoT damage have been absorbed for up to 3.0 mins @L1 to 36.0 mins @L12.
    RECAST TIMER - 18 MINS ! Yes this is a fantasic , instant cast mgbed AA buff. Don't change the buff , love it , but 18 mins ? Spell damage in this expac has been insane. Meartas anyone? Start playing around and grinding on that raid , then tell me how 18 mins isn't 9 mins too long. Cut the timer in half and were getting some where !

    I think my question for your sir , is how ARENT you running out of mana. Now I will admit , I have built HPs this expac , ( See Meartas ) so that could be a problem I will have to perhaps balance.

    Gift of Mana - Sure great , love it , had an audio trigger for it since I think 2004 , when im spamming my spell weave , im eating these like skittles , I here the audio trigger , and its gone and on to the next spell.

    PS - Did we forget , our little friend -

    Night's Endless Terror 3 - 1477 mana , SINGLE TARGET !!! RECAST TIME 45 seconds !!

    Fantastic buff
    Drains up to 5309 hit points from your target.
    Rogues , Bezerkers , Bst , Monks , Wizards , Mages , all want it and u cant mgb it , why =(

    Maybe im doing this thing wrong and all these folks shouldn't get all this stuff ? I would love to see your spell weaves / rotations , maybe I been doing it all wrong for a long time.
  11. Ismel Augur

    I picked wiz harvest cos the math was easy, and the fact that you got even better self ones dont really change my point, and why would I compare anything with gather mana if not over the entire time between recasts.

    Night's Endless Terror I see this mentioned its an urban legend it do not exist, until we get more spell gems! æøå... 45 sec recast on a short duration single target buff why would anyone think up things like this.
  12. Renotaki Elder

    Hey, NET is a beautiful buff. It's just a shame it's so limiting to cast when it's 2019 and most people in a raid can make use of it. They should give us a group version that can be used with MGB. I definitely agree with that.
    RPoo likes this.
  13. gotwar Augur

    I don't think it's necessarily that people feel like a "buff bot," it's that there's so little investment in personal performance involved in the Enchanter class right now.

    Most of what we do on raids involves beefing up our group mates through passive increases that trigger naturally through offensive spell casting. We have one or two cooldown timers to keep track of each fight - after that, it's pretty easy to turn off your brain and still do 90%+ of what's possible on the class.

    Other "support/DPS" classes tend to have an extra tier of involvement that keeps them engaged and competing. Druids have insane DPS. Bards have some impressive DPS with a well-oiled alliance rotation, along with regular engagement on synergistic ADPS timings (hello, short cooldown timers!). Rangers make things explode. Beastlords... aren't in a great spot right now, but at least they have a significant skill ceiling that allows truly beastly beastlords to be beastly compared to less-skilled players.

    The problem, at least for me right now, is that I feel like I can log in, half- a spell rotation on 3/4 events, and still be performing at the top of my class. I'd love more room in the kit to feel really engaged with my personal performance, rather than just passively boosting my group mates (even if they are fantastic group mates) while pumping out truly mediocre DPS.

    If there's one takeaway Aristo and Dzarn can catch from this thread, I hope it's that. I could live with 0 QoL improvements if they brought some competitive investment back to the Enchanter class.

    I would like to point out that some of the more mechanically complex crowd-control based events in TBL were a welcome change - they're the only ones that bring some real engagement this expansion for me.
  14. Verily Tjark Augur

    Lannin, if you're the only enchanter that all makes sense. It's a lot for one person. The view is slightly different from my fox hole, because we have had 3 enchanters on raids for years now which makes some of the timer issues not so bad.

    I agree. The TBL raids were a nice change... I mean minus all the balancing.
  15. Lannin Elder

    If there's one takeaway Aristo and Dzarn can catch from this thread, I hope it's that. I could live with 0 QoL improvements if they brought some competitive investment back to the Enchanter class.

    Right ON !

    Verily , Yes a lot of what u said is true , having 4 enchanters every single raid night , every single Meartas attempt ect would be amazing. Im pretty sure if my guild had more then two we would have finished the expac in a higher spot then 6th. The bane damage alone in Meartas would have been crazy awesome with 4 enchanters , every night , every single attempt. Kinda surprised with that many you all haven't beaten Meartas yet. ( keep fighting you will get it ! ).

    Most guild roosters , on average have 3 enchanters , most with 2 or 1. ( Full time , show up for every raid enchanters ). Seems your guild , maybe a few of the really high end guilds are the only ones who don't have some of these issues. For the rest of us , imo its a ton of buffing.

    Shaman's use to have these same issues , im only asking for a similar fix to some of our spell guard buffs which seems reasonable and its not OP. Net just seems like a common sense fix to make everyone happy.
  16. Verily Tjark Augur

    Yeah... 4 ench is nice lol. Bane has not been much of an issue running 4 deep most nights. However, we only try Mearatas about every other week due to numbers and what classes are online. So progress has been slow, but we're working on the 25% and below now.
    Lannin likes this.
  17. Cailen Augur

    Gotcharms for president 2020
  18. RPoo Vox.Dandin told you, 'your better then me =D'

    If you'd like more competition, maybe we could turn serverwide chanter chat into out own serverwide parse channel.
    Renotaki likes this.
  19. Genusii Journeyman


    This is exactly why I am taking a long term leave of absence.

    When I do return to the game, I will research you on the boards to learn anything that may have been implemented to improve game play for the enchanters.

    Thanks for all the great work over the years, Gotwar!

  20. Belkar_OotS Augur

    Just wanting to bring this back as we near the expansion.

    MGB unity for C, Haste, and Group NET with similar duration to the other 2 buffs.

    Getting a long duration group NET is not a stretch anymore in my opinion since the Jann buff exists.

    Unity Spell Guards and Rune.

    A self only dps buff that we can use with our support abilities. (match timers please). CI is nice as a separate stand alone.

    Reduce reuse times of support AA aka IOG to match group black wolf minutes and align those reuse times between casting classes. Easier to sync up support. Spire too please.

    Activated Haze needs more charges so it feels like something special instead of just a lucky timed proc.

    IoG should support dot damage too.

    Making Improved Twincast match the same.reuse time for all classes would be a good move for improving caster burn cycles.
    Saer-tse-tao likes this.