Upgrades to enchanters for next expansion

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Fian, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. Lyyr Lorekeeper

    I would love to see a better resist modifier on mesmerization spells, especially on rank 1 spells. Right now it's too risky to use rank 1 mesemerization spells without running focus of arcanum, and that isn't always possible due to level restrictions on mez and focus of arcanum. No other class has this issue to the degree that the enchanter does.
  2. Lockdown Elder


    It's of greater benefit to have your casters and priests doing melee, than, say -- oh, I don't know -- casting spells?

    Oooooookay.
  3. RPoo Vox.Dandin told you, 'your better then me =D'

    There's a lot of damage to be done while swinging in that GCD but like it matters he won't see this cause he's got me blocked anyway!
    menown likes this.
  4. Maym_Cazic Journeyman

    You can do both. Although it may be hard to find that "Q" button looking down your nose at us filthy, unwashed raiders.
    RPoo likes this.
  5. Pawtato Augur

    You all are getting trolled.
  6. RPoo Vox.Dandin told you, 'your better then me =D'

    Trolled or not, there's information to be shared that others may not know.
  7. Yendar Augur

    It’s not only greater cool down, casters and priests have 2 proc augs, a belt proc, and a security proc aug, as well as TBL and ToV casting proc augs and a casting weapon proc
  8. Lockdown Elder


    It was not my intention (which, by the way, is my Enchanter's name: Intention) to suggest that raiders are bad people, and I apologize if I gave you that impression. I certainly don't look down on raiders for enjoying raids, and I don't begrudge them their content or rewards, even though it will certainly be better than anything I ever obtain as a non-raider.

    I only wanted to emphasize that raiding is not for me. I'm introverted and a loner. Raiding isn't just long and tedious for me; it's stressful. Even though I'm physically alone in my home, doing raids is, for all intents and purposes, being in a crowd. I don't see anything wrong with raiding or raiders; it is simply my personal shortcomings that I don't join them. The problem is on my end, not theirs.

    When I've joined a raiding guild in the past, in the beginning, it's okay. But gradually, as I stay with the guild longer, doing more and more raids, I eventually become utterly miserable, wanting nothing more than to be gone.

    And I admit, sometimes I do get emphatic when I state my distaste for it. That's because I've been asked to join raiding guilds before, and it seems absolutely incomprehensible to some that some players really don't enjoy raiding. That I'd rather be farming for Tradeskills, earning more AAs, soloing and getting a tricky charm break under control.They tend to think, "Oh, you're just worried that you can't do it.

    "No, I just don't like it."

    And some get downright nasty about it. "You just don't want to join because you know you suck!"

    "Yes, that's it! That's absolutely it! I'm the worst Enchanter in the entire history of EverQuest, and that includes the buff bots! You figured me out! So, you see, you wouldn't want me in your guild, because I'm just so utterly, consummately awful! I haste the boss mob! I mezz inanimate objects! I charm other players and make them attack other players!"

    Nope. I respect their dedication and ability. Raiders tend to be very skilled players, more so than I am. But it isn't my lack of ability. Just a dislike for raiding.
  9. Vumad Augur


    NET is a targeted spell. It lasts 15 minutes. It procs a 5k nuke.

    In the post you quoted, I said it makes your group stronger. You can cast it on *other people*. Only 7 classes (4 int, 3 priest) in EQ do not routinely melee, and of those 7, 4 of them have pets that do melee (NEC, ENC, MAG and SHM). So of the 16 classes in everquest, 13 of them can benefit from NET. The only ones that do not routinely melee (or pet) are CLR, DRU and WIZ. (And put a skilled cleric with a strong knight and you can see some clerics doing melee. You're probably not familiar with Vow. And clerics get a summon hammer with undead bane and we're in a 99% undead era atm)

    As for ENC melee, NET is a proc. Procs are Direct Damage spells. Our weapon procs can proc off casts OR melee. My primary weapon (non-raid) during ROS proc'ed at a 100k nuke. This is because, as a direct damage cast, it benefits from our destructive fury AA lines. I could easily do 10k DPS melee as an ENC. My hits did almost nothing, but my weapon procs proc'ed hard.

    As for NET, casters actually benefit more than melee classes because of our twinproc and destructive fury AA. Casters who proc off NET will proc for larger numbers that war/rog/zer who do not have these AA.

    And there are reasons for casters to melee. One of which is the 1.5 second universal cool down. You may not have realized this but we spend almost as much time on cooldown as casting. During a true burn, you can additionally maximize your DPS by meleeing for procs during the universal cooldown. This is especially true for ENC comparedPretty sure IoG works on our procs.

    But that is beside dying, getting rezed, and doing the best you can to add a little extra damage. You don't raid, but those of us who do don't just sit and med while others fight. We throw kitchen sinks and when we run out of those we start grabbing bathroom sinks. Even the dog's water bowl isn't safe.

    Also if you did raid, you'd realize that SHM are usually put with melee classes (for talisman) and casters with ENC (for dissident/synnergy). 3 of the INT casters have pets, but since they are with ENC not SHM, their pets usually do not get the benefits of Talisman, which makes a group (or AA) version of NET pretty beneficial.

    But, in the end, I didn't even suggest you should melee. I said you should cast the spell on your charm/animation.

    You just have to understand there is a group of people trying to fully understand their abilities and maximize the potential of themselves and those around them. It's Oooooookay that you are not one of those people.
    Genusii, Sancus and RPoo like this.
  10. Lockdown Elder


    Thanks for the informative post.

    Just remembering what the distasteful raiding scene was like when I left. It's been a while, so things may have changed.

    But (and as I said, things may have changed), ENC, SHM and NEC did not use summoned pets on raids. These pets were simply too flimsy to survive a raid encounter. The only time I ever did anything with my summoned pet during a raid environment was a pet pull during an aug run. Mage Air Pets were useful, as their stun affected mobs even beyond the upper limit of our own stuns.

    And during these raid encounters, casters and priests, as a rule, did not melee. The AoEs were particularly devastating to us with our small heath pools and far less return on AC. It simply wasn't worth it to have the Clerics expend the mana to keep us up.And if we were found needing to be healed because we were standing too close to a boss mob during his AoE, there would be hell to pay.

    And no, I never just sat and meditated while the others were fighting. Just because I don't melee, it doesn't follow that I did nothing. It's quite beyond ridiculous to assume that a caster who isn't inepting swinging his mace is just sitting and medding while others are fighting. There were people to keep mana flare cast on, for instance. And we do have our nukes, you know. And while they aren't particularly devastating, the fact that they're chromatic means that they landed more often than nukes from other classes.
  11. Lockdown Elder

    The explanation of why casters would want NET, which I understand now, is interesting to me. Reminds me of a funny story, which serves to illustrate how much things have changed.

    I was once part of a group that was in a particular mission from Omens of War (this was when the level cap was at 75). As I recall a powerful (back then) mace called Despair was a possible drop from this mission. And it was usable by every class that can use maces. One Cleric in the group (we had two), was excited over the prospect of winning Despair, saying that only the Clerics should roll for it.

    When I asked why, she simply explained why no one else, including me, would ever use it.

    I wouldn't?

    When I mentioned this later to a Paladin friend of mine, he insisted that the Cleric was right and that Enchanters (and presumably every other caster) should not roll for Despair, as we will never be good or even passable as melees, when so many other classes would benefit more from it.

    I objected to the idea that I shouldn't roll for an weapon that I can use merely because other classes can also use it and are more competent as melees. I have my own use for melee, and I keep my skills capped. If some trash mob that aggros on everything, like skeletons, starts whacking on me, I'd rather just quickly smack it down than have to use one of the "big guns" I have memorized to take out a decaying skeleton.

    My Paladin friend said, "If your group's success should ever depend upon an Enchanter's ability to melee, you've already lost!"

    Now it seems we actually have a situation and content in which a caster's melee ability is useful, with Twinprocs and NET. Wish my Paladin friend was still playing, but I haven't seen him.
  12. Sancus Augur

    This is a good post, a few additional points/points of clarification:
    • Casting spells has no impact on melee proc rate. Therefore, there is no tradeoff between casting and meleeing, and the GCD doesn't need to come into play.
    • Pets can't crit procs, so in any situation where there are players that melee, those players are a better option than pets for NET (outside of perhaps pet tanking, but being unable to crit the procs significantly reduces the utility of the lifetap as well).
    • Procs are modified by critical damage, critical chance, and spell damage. Casters generally have stronger passive modifiers for crit chance/crit damage, and also have more activated abilities that augment them. In a raid, caster groups should have Auspice, Group Spirit of the Great Wolf, Illusions of Grandeur, Fierce Eye, Spirit of Vesagran, etc. on top of their self abilities and passive modifiers to further augment melee procs like NET.
    • Wizards have an AA called Fury of the Gods. This adds 4,500 damage to all focusable procs for four minutes (20 minute reuse), and this damage crits. Because procs are level 255 with no mana cost and are therefore not focused by most things, this extra 4,500 damage is fairly close to (though slightly worse than) an additional 4,500 base damage to any proc regardless of size. During burns the damage added by that is really respectable with a high volume of melee procs.
    • A common misconception is that melee have a number of passive AA lines or abilities that increase their proc rate. Melee procs like NET are normalized for swing rate, and the vast majority of melee modifiers that increase proc rate only do so for worn weapon procs (not buffs). The exceptions are abilities that repeat combat rounds (a la Destructive Force) and SPA 250 abilities (which is only used on 3 lines in the game, all of which are relatively weak modifiers). Apart from those fairly limited exceptions, casters and melee will see the same proc rate.
    I did not read any of the rest of this thread, but just wanted to note those things given casters meleeing did come up.
    Genusii, RPoo, Vumad and 1 other person like this.
  13. RPoo Vox.Dandin told you, 'your better then me =D'

    Ah This must be the reason I was seeing the up to 130k NET procs that I didn't include, I thought they were from mana burn.
  14. Lockdown Elder

    Any chance of us getting a Mezz Mastery that works on our AoE mezzes? (Thanks, Florencia.) Just a single tick would give the two-tick PB AoEs a duration long enough to be recast. And it would still give the one-tick version of PB AoE mezzes a duration long enough to take control of a mezz break.

    Or perhaps an AoE that shortens the cooldown of AoE mezzes.
  15. Maym_Cazic Journeyman

    Mez Mastery used to work on AE mezzes, and was nerfed. A reversion seems unlikely.
    Elfawn-FV likes this.
  16. Elfawn-FV New Member


    Like Maym said, it originally did allowing 1 enchanter to permanently lock down mobs. The devs decided this was bad and removed the benefit for PBAE mezzes. It's something we'll never get back.

    It's a nice thought though, keep them coming! In the meantime, just work in a PBAE stun if you're working with more than 6 targets.
  17. Jenovah New Member

    hmm enchanter upgrades, let me think. GREATER MASS ENCHANT CLAY!!!!! 21 years and 5 is still the max I can enchant at a time? Give us Greater Mass Enchant Clay NOW.

    Thank you
  18. Lockdown Elder


    Okay, I'm fully aware that Mesmerization Mastery used to work on AoE mezzes. I was here when the community liaison proudly announced that she got it nerfed...then had the nerve to be surprised at the backlash she got. That is why, incidentally, I said "Thanks, Florencia." Because she was the liaison who got it nerfed.

    However, no one said anything about a reversion, since a reversion would give as many extra ticks as we have ranks of Mesmerization Mastery. But it may be possible to negotiate one or two ranks of a variation of Mesmerization Mastery that would work on AoEs.

    Kindly think before you respond in the future.

    And I'll also point out to you that just prior to the nerf to Mesmerization Mastery, Bards were able to negotiate a PB AoE mezz that locks down mobs for a full five ticks, meaning that Bards can now lock down mobs in a PB AoE better than we can.
  19. enclee Augur

    It’s never coming back, it’s the equivalent of asking for the Mana crystals returning more mana than they cost or removing the charm dps cap.
  20. Verily Tjark Augur

    Be careful... we've attracted the attention of the fuzz