Upcoming test server change to lower level Fading Memories - 12% mana cost is too much.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Sethisto, Oct 11, 2019 at 1:56 AM.

  1. Sethisto Journeyman

    There is currently a huge nerf to lower level fading memories over on test server . As most who have leveled through TLP servers know at this point, around the era of high end Luclin and PoP gear, it starts to be a very viable spell for regular high level zone and raid pulling. Competitive with monks. This will cripple that.

    The change makes it cost a flat 12% rather than a flat mana cost. As an endgame raiding/grouping bard, that's a massive nerf. With primarily Gates and Anguish gear, fade costs around 7%. In Pop/LDON era it was around 9%.

    At level 72 it drops to 6% flat cost, and later on 2%, but 60-72 is 9 expansions where bard pulling ability is severely nerfed. 9 expansions where we can't improve our pulling ability at all. 6% is reasonable, but 12% is just nuts. I feel like these numbers weren't tested at all with TLP servers in mind.

    I accepted the dirge nerf because it was genuinely broken and not at all in-era. It also interrupted and broke entire zones. Nerfing something as trivial as our ability to pull though through the first 9 expansions just doesn't make sense. It's something raid level bards have always been able to do in this era. Why cripple something that has been a core feature of the class for so long? A feature that isn't broken at all? Monks already do triple the DPS of any other class during these expansions. Do they really need to be the only good raid puller too?
  2. Zipe Elder

    That's really sad.
    Bard getting fading memories was a big milestone on early expansions... game changing.
    Also forced you to start thinking about gearing with more FT.
    12% benefits the ultra low geared bards but punishes raid geared bards a lot.
    I really don't remember it, but maybe a raid geared bard could Fading memories 4-5 times before going oo during early PoP?
    Sad times, to change a milestone and a play style that has been like that for so long.
  3. Noon_yeah Journeyman

    Btw bards benefit from mod rods now. Was a stealth patch a long time ago.

    Should help with that mana issue.
  4. Sethisto Journeyman

    Mod rods are such a tiny amount of mana. I chug them anyway every time the cooldown is up, but they hardly scratch a raid bard mana pool.

    Especially one blowing 12% mana on every fade. Rods are even less impactful there since they wouldn't be able to refund much at all with a 10-15k mana pool dumping 1800 a fade.
  5. Zanarnar Augur

    "I really don't remember it, but maybe a raid geared bard could Fading memories 4-5 times before going oo during early PoP?"

    12%/fade means you can get off 8 from FM

    So... that makes it better then it was back then, no?
    code-zero likes this.
  6. NottaBard New Member

    Really getting some schadenfreude reading this after your blatant lies and manipulated details about the dirge nerf.

    You're obviously not playing a bard the way Daybreak intends. Equip your FT items, chug mod rods, and play naked. If you don't like it then turn on melody, follow the tank, and let someone else pull.
  7. Montag Augur

    12% is too high can we go 6/4/2?
  8. yerm Augur

    % based should be avoided on principle anyway. A bard who grabs ahr neck and a few others to hit ft cap will suddenly find that upgrading gear makes it HARDER to do this basic job. You may ironically search out manaless plate so that you have more mana on hand to pull with.
  9. Sethisto Journeyman

    This would make a lot more sense, but lets be real. % scaling at all is a stupid way to do it. I'll just strip naked with enough gear to hit FT cap. It's not like you need HP and DPS when you are chainpulling for a group to exp on. How dumb of a mechanic is that? To NOT want more mana pool?
  10. HoodenShuklak Augur

    The initial level of 12% did seem too high to me as well. The drop off of 6 to 2%, however, looks really big in comparison. But for a long time 12% is going to be a rough price to pay.

    Here is an actual number from a very well geared PoP-era raid bard: 7,968 mana without KEI.

    So, Fade goes from 900 to 956 mana around this point. Interestingly, that means that as soon as you start becoming "raid geared" you literally pay a penalty on that extra gear in order to fade. You just hit 9,000 mana? Fade now costs 1080. And this will get worse until you reach whatever point you can get 6%. Meanwhile, it's very important for devs to consider that bard mana regen doesn't get much better whereas everyone else does.

    Especially early in EQ (PoP to DOD) I don't see any reason to nerf fade as it's really not abusable or OP. Not many people main a bard past PoP anyways, so the number of those affected are probably 5 per TLP. And 3 of those bards won't even know a change happened, lol.
  11. Kragin Augur

    Not sure where you play, even on phini we have 4 or 5 times that & we are double digits deep on expansions. idk maybe you play on agnarr
  12. Coppercoz Augur

    Twelve percent does seem sort of rough. Allowing bards to receive mana regen from songs or clarity might be helpful. I am not sure why we don't at this point. It never made much sense to me, but I'm sure there was a reason behind it at some point.
  13. Machen Augur

    When the decision was made, there was almost nothing that actually used bards' mana. Charm and targetted ae nuke. I think the decision was made purely to restrict how often bards could use those two specific songs. If bards could benefit from clarity, etc, fade likely would have had a higher cost originally as they would have compensated for that. Likewise, the devs have calculated the current numbers based on what they want to achieve (whether we agree with it or not...) IF clarity etc impacted bard mana regen, likely they would have justs increased the % cost further.
    code-zero likes this.
  14. Accipiter Augur

    I was wondering that, too. My bard isn't group puller but I recall when I first got Fading Memories it seemed to take about 1/3 of my mana.

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